Human Verse... adjustments?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Would it be too much to have HV increase from 20 seconds by 5 each increase up to 40 seconds for HV4?

That I'd support.

[krud]

HV could use something. For all of you saying "No" is it directed toward the OP, or do you all think HV is just fine as is?

[Hendrik]

HV could use something. For all of you saying "No" is it directed toward the OP, or do you all think HV is just fine as is?

If you will remember HV was way overpowered at one time. Fueling the change to what it is now. The suggested improvement would put us back to where we once were, HV being overpowered again.

A skill that enhances ALL effected attributes with one click? Yea, that is not overpowered. Unbalances HV, again. The OP has made statements and arguments to retain balance. This proposal does not do that. Talking out both side of the mouth again.

Furthermore, an increase to the duration is not necessary. Twenty seconds is long enough per use.

The 'burden of proof' is not mine to bear. The OP must make a convincing argument as to why this change is needed. That has not been done.

[krud]

Furthermore, an increase to the duration is not necessary. Twenty seconds is long enough per use.

OK, his proposal is over the top, but do you really think HV is fine as is? Do you use HV?

[Hendrik]

OK, his proposal is over the top, but do you think still HV is fine as is?

Compared to its first incarnation, yes I do.

A few arguments made here revolve around it's duration - some well written/thought out. Maybe a slight adjustment is needed, maybe not. In my experience with HV it's current duration is just about right with the amount of uses granted.

What about a +2 second addition to duration per Rank with a +4 at Rank IV to a max duration of 30 seconds?

Just tossing that out to further a decent debate - so far.



*Answering your edit*

Yes I do. On more then one character with experience in it's previous version and it's current.

[llevenbaxx]

Compared to its first incarnation, yes I do.

A few arguments made here revolve around it's duration - some well written/thought out. Maybe a slight adjustment is needed, maybe not. In my experience with HV it's current duration is just about right with the amount of uses granted.

What about a +2 second addition to duration per Rank with a +4 at Rank IV to a max duration of 30 seconds?

Just tossing that out to further a decent debate - so far.



*Answering your edit*

Yes I do. On more then one character with experience in it's previous version and it's current.

Have used both versions also. On my currently monk7, I use it almost all the time. For tougher mobs I use the "to hit" w/PA on or for big groups Ill go with the AC boost, on elite with no rogue Ill pop the save boost to make sure I get through the trap. It does in fact give me versatility. We all know the original was overpowered, forget about it, just look at what HV is compared to what other races are getting and how often their race enhancements are active.

I am constantly running out of charges on this character, with a 10-20 sec increase in duration, I may be able to get another fight out of it. I thought the duration was a bit tight since they rolled this version out but I guess its all a matter of opinion there.

[Bionca]

One way that might make HV better would be to have a several lines of it. Each line would effect a group of skills. There could be 3 teirs of each skill set, each one giving a +1 to the set of skills. This would remove the boost not many like.

I first thought the skills could be grouped by their mod stat. I don't think that this would work seeing as the skills get a little unballanced in number for one stat over the others. So then what about grouping the skills together based that would be used together. For example: tumble, move silently, and hide could be put together. They seem logical that these fit well with each other. Another line could be the jump, swim, and ballance.

Just a thought.

[branmakmuffin]

Furthermore, an increase to the duration is not necessary. Twenty seconds is long enough per use.

The 'burden of proof' is not mine to bear.

It is when you say things as unequivocal as "an increase to the duration is not necessary. Twenty seconds is long enough per use." You could try "I think it's not necessary. I think 20 seconds is plenty of time."

Your main beef with the idea is that it came from villainsimple.

I find it to be useful (it's helped my Brd3 find secret doors when soloing), but wouldn't mind an increase in duration to 30 seconds, particularly for the combat options. That hardly seems overpowering.

[Hendrik]

It is when you say things as unequivocal as "an increase to the duration is not necessary. Twenty seconds is long enough per use." You could try "I think it's not necessary. I think 20 seconds is plenty of time."

Your main beef with the idea is that it came from villainsimple.

I find it to be useful (it's helped my Brd3 find secret doors when soloing), but wouldn't mind an increase in duration to 30 seconds, particularly for the combat options. That hardly seems overpowering.

Sorry, I do not need anyone telling me what I meant with my statements nor what my motivation is.

Maybe go back and re-read what I have posted in an effort to further this debate.

[In_Like_Flynn]

I think it's fine the way it is. It's useful and versatile.

[llevenbaxx]

I think it's fine the way it is. It's useful and versatile.

How do you think Humans' enhancements stack to other races' overall? Adaptability is basically the same as other races stat bumps, better healing is useful to a point but not incredible for most builds. HV is the only thing they have that compares to the vast selection of the other races, do you think it stacks up, considering the other races' enhancements are pretty much 24/7?

Note: I do like and use HV on my 2 humans, but playing most other races, I dont feel it stacks up to other races choices. Do you?

[In_Like_Flynn]

I dont feel it stacks up to other races choices. Do you?

Yes.

[DelScorcho]

I'm confused. Are human characters still in the game? I never see any.

[Wan6Tan6]

There's a ton of human monks since mod 7.

But yes, trying to play with a controller while mousing over clickies does not work. It's a source of constant frustration. You can do Sunder and Trip attacks, but they're just not worth it when your melee specialist stands there like a dunce. It's the main reason I don't have any clickie attacks on my fighter and won't play a monk.

[Kromize]

It used to be great as a permanent bonus...

Now...it disgusts me...and I can barely remember what it used to be.

I'm pretty sure that it was a + to all skills, +5 I think...

Now that was an awesome bonus to any character...
melee, better balance(at the time, didn't mean squat, lol), jump, tumble...good stuff..
caster, well heck, thats a pretty good concentration boost there, and now you can swim w/o dying too! Not to mention boost your umd(if u have it)
rogue, wow, your a much better rogue with it...good job human
umd user, sweet, a boost to umd...awesome.

It was freakin great for anything you really needed, but wasn't necessary. It was what made you more human, being good at doing things, at doing multiple things, and not just 1 thing.

But now, you can only be good at it for 20 seconds? That makes no sense...



I typed a lot here, basic reason behind it all. The human versatility enhancement was great as it was before you "DEV's" butchered it. I don't know what you were thinking when you redid the enhancement system, but man oh man did you mess things up, overpowering some classes/races, leaving others way underpowered...and lot's gimped.

That was a long time ago, and look, people are STILL complaining about it. When will you fix it?

sigh...