Human Verse... adjustments?

[villainsimple]

Since it's clear the Devs are absolutely intent on keeping Human Verse on a timer.... I propose two potential alternatives....


Super Human Versatility... what if human versatility activated ALL of the attributed elements for 20 seconds? As in you'd get a the bonus to attack, damage, skills, saves, and armor class.

You'd become "Super Human" a real hero...for 20 seconds... five times per rest.


Conversely...

Allow human versatilities duration to last 60 seconds instead of 20.

[Deriaz]

[Eaten by Cube]

Y'know, I think a simple "no" would have sufficed. . .

Anyways, I don't think I'd like this idea. . . I mean, the all-together thing rubs the wrong way on me. But the timer. . . If it was knocked up to 30, maybe that'd work a little better? Just so it doesn't make Humans more appealing than any other race, but at the same time, helps out Human Versatility a tiny bit.

Just my two cents.

-D

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Its been like that for quite a while now... you seem to be a fan of asking people to provide facts Simple, what actual reason is there to do this from a gameplay and/or balancing perspective?

[QuantumFX]

Actually I'd like a couple minor changes to HV.

1) Allow it to be a replacement for similar class action boosts for opening up things like PrE's. (Having to double pay to open up a PrE stinks.)

2) Build in 1 AP class enhancements at class level 6 that allow you to add class boosts to the HV level/timer.

3) Give additional use enhancements at lvl 12/14 like the class boosts.

[Deriaz]

[Eaten by Cube]

No, you're right -- I don't. But that doesn't give him the right to post something like that. Yes, Villain has had a lot of suggestions: Some good, some bad. But even that doesn't give Gax the right -- Villain is just posting ideas. *Shrugs.*

Actually I'd like a couple minor changes to HV.

1) Allow it to be a replacement for similar class action boosts for opening up things like PrE's. (Having to double pay to open up a PrE stinks.)

2) Build in 1 AP class enhancements at class level 6 that allow you to add class boosts to the HV level/timer.

3) Give additional use enhancements at lvl 12/14 like the class boosts.

Those all seem good to me. Having to pay twice for a PrE just seems silly, and like a sink for Action Points. #2 might be good, depending on how that would work. Do you mean, like, the first rank of that enhancement would make HV last for 26 seconds (1 second/level at 6, for example) instead of 20? Cause that'd work.

And #3 is just a given. I don't see why there shouldn't be "Extra Human Versatility" Enhancements, especially if you've taken all the way up to rank IV of one of them. (Or is it III? Never played a fleshling, so I dunno Human Enhancements.)

-D

[Inspire]

Since it's clear the Devs are absolutely intent on keeping Human Verse on a timer.... I propose two potential alternatives....


Super Human Versatility... what if human versatility activated ALL of the attributed elements for 20 seconds? As in you'd get a the bonus to attack, damage, skills, saves, and armor class.

You'd become "Super Human" a real hero...for 20 seconds... five times per rest.


Conversely...

Allow human versatilities duration to last 60 seconds instead of 20.

Yes, Those Would Be Nice... But... Whats So Wrong With Them Now?

[Borror0]

No, you're right -- I don't. But that doesn't give him the right to post something like that. Yes, Angelus has had a lot of suggestions: Some good, some bad. But even that doesn't give Gax the right -- Angelus is just posting ideas. *Shrugs.*

Err... you mean Villain, right?

[Uska]

Err... you mean Villain, right?

Thats what I was thinking

[Deriaz]

Yeah, sorry. Wasn't thinking. Heheh. Even read over it in a proofread -- How I missed it, I don't know. My mistake. I'll go back and fix that. Heheh. ^^;;

-D

EDIT: There, changed the name. Heh. Again, no idea what I was thinking, or how I missed that. . . Twice, no less. The name's been corrected. Sorry for any confusion. XD!

[Aranticus]

it could be on purpose for all we know

[Borror0]

Super Human Versatility... what if human versatility activated ALL of the attributed elements for 20 seconds? As in you'd get a the bonus to attack, damage, skills, saves, and armor class.

You'd become "Super Human" a real hero...for 20 seconds... five times per rest.
[...]

Allow human versatilities duration to last 60 seconds instead of 20.

I'll just add a "No, just no." In case my opposition wasn't clear.

[villainsimple]

Its been like that for quite a while now... you seem to be a fan of asking people to provide facts Simple, what actual reason is there to do this from a gameplay and/or balancing perspective?

Human Enhancements on the whole are somewhat subbar in comparison to say Dwarf and now halfling to some degree.

Other races tend to recieve a plethora of bonuses... Dwarves get somethng like twelve? Halflings get a free sneak attack on everything that isn't looking at them, whether they're a rogue or not.

Humans get three.

Human Improved Recovery.

Human Adaptibility.

Human Versatility.



As humans, overall, recieve fewer enhancements overall, and humans are frequently viewed as subpar (Look at the number of dwarves, drow, and now halflings we have for any modicum of proof...the masses have spoken), t is necessary that those enhancements be potent.

The human enhancements come up short in comparison to sway, the dwarven enhancements.


Dwarves get everything that the humanv ersatility line provides (at least to some dgeree), except their enhancements are on permanently.

Dwarves recieve a bonus ato attack with axes, a bonus to damage, with axes, a bomnus to armor class (in the form of dwarven armor mastery/giant dodger), a bonusnto save vs. spells (and the vast majority of saves ARE vs. spells), and a bonus to "skills" in terms of dwarven tactics (note the quotation marks).

All of these lead dwarves to be a very potent combatant, which they are meant to be.


Humans simply cannot keep up, but they cannot keep up in any arena, really... whether it's casting, combat, or skills... they're sub par in everything they do.


The proposed changes to human versatility would enhance the usefulness of those skills and increase the overall power of humans.

[Deriaz]

it could be on purpose for all we know

Nah, wasn't on purpose. I've got no reason to do that on purpose. Oo I've got nothing against either of them. . . Though it seems my mistake is going to be held up to the light. *Shrugs.* Oh well. I made a mistake; that's all I care about. Fixed it, moving on----

I still feel the 30 second timer isn't too bad. 10 seconds is, what. . . 2 attacks from an enemy? One, MAYBE two more search / disable attempts? 10 more seconds doesn't seem that bad, compared to the 40 second increase originally suggested.

-D

[villainsimple]

Nah, wasn't on purpose. I've got no reason to do that on purpose. Oo I've got nothing against either of them. . . Though it seems my mistake is going to be held up to the light. *Shrugs.* Oh well. I made a mistake; that's all I care about. Fixed it, moving on----

I still feel the 30 second timer isn't too bad. 10 seconds is, what. . . 2 attacks from an enemy? One, MAYBE two more search / disable attempts? 10 more seconds doesn't seem that bad, compared to the 40 second increase originally suggested.

-D

Compare that to the dwarven/elven/drow/halfling enhancements that are always on.

[Raegoul]

Would it be too much to have HV increase from 20 seconds by 5 each increase up to 40 seconds for HV4?

[Missing_Minds]

Would it be too much to have HV increase from 20 seconds by 5 each increase up to 40 seconds for HV4?

I think Villian actually had a bases this time, but it was poorly worded into a gimie gimie gimmie post. I don't agree with his proposal, however, I like Raegoul's, but I'd make it 6 seconds instead of 5 just to keep even with the "round" concept lasting 6 seconds. I'd like most of the short 20 second "bursts" to happen like this.

The reason why is because I'm not a twitch player, and my quick keys are there primarily for combat, not the ocassional click.

For those I have to do the following.

1. take my hand off the keyboard,
2. put it on my mouse,
3. find said mouse pointer (which can be pain in and of itself),
4. move the mouse up to the icon, click said icon (and pray I don't take it off the hotbar. This one would be my fault),
5. MOVE THE DAM MOUSE OFF THE HOT BAR BECAUSE THE DEVS STILL HAVEN'T FIXED THE @#$^$@# MOUSE OVER ISSUES!!!!,
6. put my hand back on the keyboard, and being the assault.

On average this takes me about.. 4-6 seconds. Oh look, a good quarter of that time is already used up. Lets blow another 3 seconds of it to get to where I want to be. So I can easily chew up half of my 20 seconds just to pull off this combat stunt. 20 seconds just isn't worth it to me to even bother with these things.

[salmag]

Since it's clear the Devs are absolutely intent on keeping Human Verse on a timer.... I propose two potential alternatives....


Super Human Versatility... what if human versatility activated ALL of the attributed elements for 20 seconds? As in you'd get a the bonus to attack, damage, skills, saves, and armor class.

You'd become "Super Human" a real hero...for 20 seconds... five times per rest.


Conversely...

Allow human versatilities duration to last 60 seconds instead of 20.

Why not make Human Versatility (an enhancement), last for 20 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown timer, like Manyshot (a feat)?

For that matter, why not make Power Attack, ALL the Skill Boosts, Rage, etc. last for 20 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown timer, like Manyshot?

[QuantumFX]

#2 might be good, depending on how that would work. Do you mean, like, the first rank of that enhancement would make HV last for 26 seconds (1 second/level at 6, for example) instead of 20? Cause that'd work.

An example is really the only way to explain this idea. A lvl10 Human Barbarian has purchased HV: Tier 4 and a version of the proposed enhancement (in this case the Human Barbarian Versatility: Damage Resistance). For all purposes it acts like Barbarian Action Boost: Damage Resistance rank 4 but pulls from the pool of HV uses and only costs 1 AP.

I don't think this would be overpowering as it makes the HV enhancement more useful and targets one of it's biggest flaws (redundancy).

[Hendrik]

No.

[llevenbaxx]

Would it be too much to have HV increase from 20 seconds by 5 each increase up to 40 seconds for HV4?

I could get behind this. As a whole the Humans' race enhancements seem fairly weak compared to others. What do you have really HV and adaptability. They are nice but not other race nice imo. It seems HV is supposed to be a sort of center piece(imo at least) enhancement for humans but it just doesnt have oomph it should. Increased duration would be the way to go imo.