What do you think of monks?

[Lifespawn]

A STR & WIS-based monk can get stunning attacks from two difference sources, Stunning Fist & Stunning Blow, and acheive useful DCs with both. That is something no other class combo can do as well. A monk with "too much" multi-class will not have a good Stunning Fist DC.

A monk can chose the Dark path to inflict Shaken as his pre-stunning attack, effectively raising his Stun DC by 2. Monk Shaken is DC 10 + monk level + WIS mod = around DC 30 at 16th. The monk could also wear Fearsome Robes and see if that acheives the same thing. I'm currently trying that out.



I think people are seeing many copies of similar monk builds. A lot of halflings. A lot of DEX based or DEX & Wisdom Based. Almost all Harmonious Path. Those monks can be good at what they do, but perhaps they are not too different from what other classes can do.

I am the only player that I know of that is trying the STR & WIS based double-stunning dark monk.

I recently switched to Harmony because the Dark finishers are not good enough and my monk does not need the Dark Shaken attack yet. Dark will get upgraded at some point, and monster saves will continue to rise, so I will likely switch back to Dark at the higher levels.

I figure that a single-classed monk might play a lot like a paladin/fighter/rogue multiclass = good saves, AC and some healing and buffs (if Harmony monk), and similar damage output, although it takes monk unarmed damage awhile to reach the high numbers.

The Pal/Ftr/Rog can be strength-based and use Stunning Blow with a weighted weapon.

The monk can use stunning fist. The Monk can ALSO take Stunning Blow and use weighted weaponry. This makes the single-classed monk unique in what he can contribute.

I took a single rogue level on my human monk. WIS-based monk abilities will be 1 DC lower than single-classed. In exchange she gets sneak attack damage without needing unbalancing strike and the rogue sneak attack training enhancement and attack speed boost. The human race compares well to the halfling race with its human versatility, adaptability, and extra feat and skill points (open locks & use magic device). With Skill Focus in UMD, and without excessive +UMD item swapping/buffs, my character will be able to wield +1 true law handwraps of weighted +8 (UMD 18) at 9th level. The character will also have WIS 22 to 26, depending on stance, for a useful Stunning Fist DC. STR is a repectable 20 to 24 depending on stance.

u don't need to have unbalancing strike to do sneak attack damage all it does is allow you to sneak attack even while u have aggro


i aswell went 1 rogue on my dex/wis/str monk halfling water stance sporting a buffable 53 ac at lvl 11 dc of 23 on the ubalancing and 1d6+9 sneak attack die on almost everything it will cap out at 1d6+19 with enhancments and sneak attack wraps.

guildy of mine is a str based human monk dark using stunning fist and stunning blow he likes it sofar and runs with another guildy same build but light using qstaffs.

[RigorAdar]

for the record there are transmuting handwraps

[feynman]

Monks are funny: I rerolled mine 9 times before I pulled vicious handwraps, which served me well until I could use +5, although +5 vicious will be even better. Without the vicious bug, monks are feeble below level 8ish. After that, +5 handwraps and power attack work well, but still short of the kind of DPS you expect out of a martial arts master, although getting kicked around for 5 minutes before killing the mob does have a certain Jackie Chan feel to it.

My final (!) build is 16/16/12/8/16/8 elf, with power attack, cleave, and TWF. Level points are going to str, class points to wis, and race points to dex.

Note that you don't get Ki unless your primary attack (not effect) does damage; this is most notable in places like Delera's, where the DR on the skellie's will often prevent you from acquiring Ki while using fists. This is what Q-staves are for.

I haven't found a good use for kamas, yet, although that will probably change with access to green steel kamas; unless we get true TWF (2 handwraps, dag-nab-it!) and green steel handwraps, TWF with kamas will be the end-game equipment for all monks, if only for the extra bonuses (exceptional str AND wis?!).

All the moves are weak; I use Ki almost exclusively for healing, though that, too, will change if they fix the block-to-charge-finisher "bug". If they do, then light will be just as gimp as dark. IMHO, there should be a way to charge up healing quickly so that I can dump Ki after a fight; as it is, I sit there charging up the heal over and over again, while the party gets restless. If they "fix" it, then I won't have anything to do with my Ki. The only other finisher worth anything is fire, and only at low level.

This class needs some love, particularly when it comes to party role. My greatest accomplishment was to qualify to pull both the strength and wisdom levers in VON 5.

[MrCow]

All the moves are weak

Grasp of the Earth Dragon's immunity to stun is not weak, although it is situationally useful. It is also one of the truly unique things monks have that they can bring to a party right now.

[QuantumFX]

So what do you guys think of monks so far? Are they pretty cool? Or are they puny, wannabe tanks (or both)?

They're like barbs, clerics or rangers in that they're not bad player resistant

[Cyr]

They are the single most overpowered class the game has seen. Yet, people are making horrible ones or expect them to out DPS barbarians. They are not as is so often stated able to fill many roles. What they are is able to be built many ways. This means str based, dex based, splash based, or even full multi-class based. They fit very nicely as a splash into many builds just like paladins. They also work very well as mostly monk builds with a little of something else.

The best monks I have seen are easily able to tank any raid boss in the game with minimual healing, do decent dps (on par with the best of other dex builds or around fighter damage levels), can get to those annoying places in quests that otherwise require another five minutes to run out to with the party, and most importantly can handle agro for the party effectivly.

The worst monks are generally pure monks with fairly low AC and pumped up str scores who use their fists. These generally run straight into a group of monsters without realizing two important things. One, their AC is not so good so they will get hit all the time. And two, they move much much faster then the other people in the party so the other tanks (and cleric) will not be right on their heels ready to shed some of that agro off of them.

Now I have seen some other decent monks out there (which will I think be the norm in the future). They have high hit points, good strength, and a decent (not maxed) str. They know that they are pretty comparable to a decent fighter build in dps and have a little higher AC. They do not charge recklessly forward (read abudndant step not used constantly to get ahead of the whole party and then die) but are ahead of the rest of the party a little. They slide around mobs and through them while attacking to minimize attacks that can land vs them instead of sitting there swinging like a barbarian. They happily have all the caster agro because their high saves and improved evasion make casters a joke to them saving much grief from the barbarian in the party.

So all in all, monks are uber if built right. (Do not read pure monks...I do not think pure anything but casters are the best buidls). Most monks though are mediocre at the moment. They are a new class and most people had lopsided expectactions about how they would work and most people are not used to playing them yet. They are for the most part lacking the top end equipment in the game (which is around 10-20 points of AC depending on how lacking they are) and do mediocre DPS due to this lacking equipment also. Give them time, people will see what works best and emulate the trial blazers soon enough.

[Generals]

I've been taking the Dex/Wis route to it's point, and so far have not been unimpressed. They seem fine to fill roles from support ops (if only I had a nickel for every incap saved by a Ki heal) to tanking/holding aggro to scouting ahead to leading a charge with stunning efficiency. I seen plenty o' monk super-heroes.

Survivable, quick, adaptable - with bruising DPS.
# of atax PS matters, being able to quickly recover from incap matters, and being able to take damage + dish it out matters.

No, monks don't stack up as well as any other pure class in their game. But then again no other pure class stacks up as well as a monk in his game either. It's a whole new game for them.

Anyway looking forward to the improvements and fixes.