learn to listen or read!!!

[Aranticus]

yes, this a yet another rant

i started a hound run today. used voice chat until my wife came home, from which i used text. the planning was simple. i split the party into 2 groups, me and a cleric to go to center to get agro of xyzzy and the small dogs, the rest would roam the outer area killing renders and flayers. after the initial stones are covered, the group will then separate. 4 melees (2 ftr, 1 pally, 1 rog) will guard the N,S,E,W passage ways. 2 clerics in the center, 1 to heal the melees, another to heal the charmed dogs. 1 sorc in the center to fog the N,S,E,W passage ways. the rest (1 pally, 1 bard, 1 clr, 1 sorc, 1 rgr) will continue roaming the outer area for renders and flayers.

this was covered BEFORE we enter the raid. in addition, the players were asked several times if they understood and to raise questions if they are unclear about the instructions. a couple of minutes passed and since no one raised issues, we loaded into the raid. things went smooth at the beginning, the dogs were successfully charmed. melees took up their guard posts when i gave the call. then, while guarding south, i noticed the northern melee fighting the renders in south. i immediately typed in chat to ask him to move to his post. i sent out 2-3 text messages but he continued with the hunting party. so i got fustrated and shouted into the mic. the ranger immediately fill the northern post. however, renders moved through before he could fill. these were quickly dispatched but not long after the said ftr got mindblasted. this lowered the dps of the hunting party and the number of renders increased which ended in a wipe

so i asked everyone to recall and i booted the said ftr. this is the 1st time i kicked someone out of a party. then i recieved a tell from that ftr giving the reasons, 1. my mic is working poorly, 2. he was stunned, then added not to bother him anymore. that was the last straw and he enters my DNP list. most people know how i operate. i may be a nazi when it comes to the details, but i ensure that everyone is sure of their duties. if you cant read or listen, then please dun join my groups. if you think you are so uber that you can do things the way you like, then start you own party. this way you can call all the shots you want

[lasac]

I met me a barb in vision of destruction who did not follow instructions. always attacked main boss and didn't clear the devils. on top of that he was WF with little if any healers friend and he died faster than enyone ive ever seen. so i figured what the hell he just sucks really bad and i just wont run with him anymore but then we finally completed and guess which WF got the fullpalte and took it. (I'm all for getting you own loot and taking but only if its possible that you can put it on...) so anyways Madbull is now squelched to I think 11 party members of that vision group lol

[JoeyJoJoJr]

Aranticus, it wasn't me who caused you your problems but i've certainly been guilty of an f/u that caused a wipe in Hounds... so on behalf of that guy and everyone else who's helped bugger that one up... i'm sorry!!!!

[Aeneas]

Your strategy is every bit as much of a problem as your group's inability to follow directions - there is a better way to do this raid.

Having persistent rovers is a mistake, you don't need to spend your time killing mobs the entire quest, enjoy the short breaks.

Most of what you do works great, but keep those 3 rovers in the middle to run to the side they are needed when one melee guard gets overwhelmed and be sure to tell the guards at the n,s,e,w not to go too far out or they'll attract unwanted attention from passing mobs.

If you do run out of stones, then send the roving party back out and have them stick together in case a mindblast comes their way so the cleric or bard healing them can hit them with a heal scroll and revive them. Don't go looking for trouble though, leaving the mobs around the perimeter alone can save you grief and sp's, they all die when xy'zzy bites the dust anyway.

[Aranticus]

Your strategy is every bit as much of a problem as your group's inability to follow directions - there is a better way to do this raid.

Having persistent rovers is a mistake, you don't need to spend your time killing mobs the entire quest, enjoy the short breaks.

Most of what you do works great, but keep those 3 rovers in the middle to run to the side they are needed when one melee guard gets overwhelmed and be sure to tell the guards at the n,s,e,w not to go too far out or they'll attract unwanted attention from passing mobs.

If you do run out of stones, then send the roving party back out and have them stick together in case a mindblast comes their way so the cleric or bard healing them can hit them with a heal scroll and revive them. Don't go looking for trouble though, leaving the mobs around the perimeter alone can save you grief and sp's, they all die when xy'zzy bites the dust anyway.

this wasnt my strategy alone, it has been used by many in very successful run. different people may have different ways of doing it, just like in shroud. some like to pull fire to NE, others to SW but whatever the case, it is important for people to listen to the leader. your method works too but sometimes the dogs break before you get the second batch in. this can happen because 1. there are many mobs still alive, 2. you agro a large number of mobs into the centre and dogs get killed.

whichever the case, yours or mine, the key thing is for everyone to understand their role and go about doing their role. if they do not understand, then ASK or CLARIFY. even if you have the best strategy, if people do not listen and do things as they wish, then the chance of failure increases. think vision, think shroud. i've been in groups where the people are on the same wavelength, no communication what so ever, and the raids get done. that is if they are all on the same wavelength, everyone knows their specific roles. but if someone is not on the same path, then he or she has to attune to the group dynamics. simple as that yet some people do not understand

[Arianrhod]

Yeah, gotta say, in any group/quest where there's a chance of failure/wipe, the most important thing isn't which specific strategy being used, but that everyone is cooperating on the same strategy (not off doing their own thing).

[Aeneas]

Oh and i almost forgot the most important tip - don't PUG the hound or sulo, it's just a bad idea

[Aranticus]

Oh and i almost forgot the most important tip - don't PUG the hound or sulo, it's just a bad idea

or pug with people you absolutely know well and trust

[Zenako]

Couple of quick obeservations. Not even on your server....

I find that many times, when you have a handful of new players to your group (often in Raids) that while the core members of the guild or group all know each other by voice that sometimes the directions can be rather confusing to an outsider. Especially so when the leader uses other characters names or the players real name instead of using the name of the character in the quest. (Been there, seen that, and probably have done that...) Umm, there is no Mike character in the game so who was he talking to???

That sometimes with a strong leader, they can actually intimidate some raid members into not wanting to feel stupid by not understanding their role, especially if they are a melee. (one reason I often run my cleric on raids first, you NEVER feel stupid asking questions as a cleric, and every leader I have seen always has time to explain what they want the cleric to do...). The power of the HEALER is great and respected/wanted in such things.

I also sometimes see cross communcation between what is being said over voice and what is being sent in text.

Not trying to excuse that individual, but sometimes what is real clear to some, is only kinda clear to others. Most of the time it is possible to figure things out on the fly and not come across as not understanding what had been said/asked. That is also one reason I roam around quests AFTER we win or lose to explore the layout and figure out more things for myself instead of just being told about them...

[Aranticus]

Couple of quick obeservations. Not even on your server....

I find that many times, when you have a handful of new players to your group (often in Raids) that while the core members of the guild or group all know each other by voice that sometimes the directions can be rather confusing to an outsider. Especially so when the leader uses other characters names or the players real name instead of using the name of the character in the quest. (Been there, seen that, and probably have done that...) Umm, there is no Mike character in the game so who was he talking to???

That sometimes with a strong leader, they can actually intimidate some raid members into not wanting to feel stupid by not understanding their role, especially if they are a melee. (one reason I often run my cleric on raids first, you NEVER feel stupid asking questions as a cleric, and every leader I have seen always has time to explain what they want the cleric to do...). The power of the HEALER is great and respected/wanted in such things.

I also sometimes see cross communcation between what is being said over voice and what is being sent in text.

Not trying to excuse that individual, but sometimes what is real clear to some, is only kinda clear to others. Most of the time it is possible to figure things out on the fly and not come across as not understanding what had been said/asked. That is also one reason I roam around quests AFTER we win or lose to explore the layout and figure out more things for myself instead of just being told about them...

yeap fully agree. however, i just spoke to a guildie who recognised his voice while playing lowbies. he f-ed up the quest for him too and caused a wipe.....

not only that, i had people telling me hes been cranky these couple of days....

[Zenako]

yeap fully agree. however, i just spoke to a guildie who recognised his voice while playing lowbies. he f-ed up the quest for him too and caused a wipe.....

not only that, i had people telling me hes been cranky these couple of days....

Ouch...sometimes it really is just time to step outside and go smell some roses for a few days...you know get some sun, play some golf, go to the beach, whatever...just step away...

I can recall one (apparently now long gone) individual I quested with a handful of times who was a decent player, but just way to obnoxious over voice chat to put up with. After a few times, his baggage way out weighed his skill, and his requests for me to join his parties just got ignored. When you party up, it is a TEAM game, and everyone really needs to learn how to play well with others, including taking directions...sigh.

All I know on that quest is it REALLY blows chunks when that cleric in the middle is suddenly swamped by close to a dozen mobs all at once...wipe is fortunately usually pretty quick so not too many extra supplies go down...and for some reason the mobs seek out and gotta pick on the healer first....ugh...

[Indrn_Fretgoop]

did u ever think it's because ur teh uberz newb masta' deania

[Yajerman01]

My rule of thumb is, always adhere to what the leader says, giving directions, plotting strategy, etc, etc. Even if you know a different way, its always beneficial to listen and learn a new way or see if a bad way can be dealt with more efficiently.

Besides, if everyone listens and there is a party wipe you can always point the finger at the leader.

[Aranticus]

did u ever think it's because ur teh uberz newb masta' deania

when others have the star and i'm assigned a duty i do not like, i'll ask for a change BEFORE the quest/raid begins. if the leader still prefers me doing other roles, i perform them to the best of my ability. i'll not go about doing my own things and as a result ruin the day for 5/11 other people.

i was with your guild's vision run playing my cleric. my cleric is offensive specced but i went into healbot mode to keep people alive. only when the explosive bats came up did i set up blade barriers. of coz i could have went into battle mode but it will mean the chance of failure will be higher.

am i uber, could be... but i do know how to listen

[Raegoul]

Aranticus GO TO THE CENTRE

WORK GROUPS NORTH SOUTH EAST WEST

WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT go to youtube and look for Onyxia Wipe!!

[Gornn]

My rule of thumb is to mock Aranticus as much as I can during a raid and see how much uber loot I get after completing it despite my ignoration of his commands. (Thats right - ignoration. Suck it up. ) Except when he dies against the Pit Fiend in part 4 and I have to take over leading...oi, then things get MAD awkward...heh

Luckily, I'm so lovable he keeps inviting me back to his groups...

Speaking of which, I need to complete the hound and Shroud on all my chars tomorrow night...wanna start a group?

Fun times.

-Gornn
You KNOW you love me.

[Aranticus]

My rule of thumb is to mock Aranticus as much as I can during a raid and see how much uber loot I get after completing it despite my ignoration of his commands. (Thats right - ignoration. Suck it up. ) Except when he dies against the Pit Fiend in part 4 and I have to take over leading...oi, then things get MAD awkward...heh

Luckily, I'm so lovable he keeps inviting me back to his groups...

Speaking of which, I need to complete the hound and Shroud on all my chars tomorrow night...wanna start a group?

Fun times.

-Gornn
You KNOW you love me.

dang where were you? but no worries i only ran 2 shrouds n 1 hound today

[Gornn]

Phew! That means you still have like 20 chars off timer...luckily for me!

I can do 3 reavers, 3 Shrouds, and 3 Hounds...

yes, thats ALL my characters off timer...heh.

[Litz]

This gives me an idea of making a new guild called "Grind"..

[Boldrin]

This gives me an idea of making a new guild called "Grind"..

Dude, I'd put a toon in a guild named Grind!!!!