Ye old greensteel Dwarven Axe vs Khopesh Argument

[LazyMantis]

Dwarves fight with axes! Dat's HOW WE DO!!!

[TheDjinnFor]

Ok... Let's do some math.

All numbers apply for a dwarven str ranger with +6 seeker, as originally posted by the OP.

Min 2 vs Harry (50% fort, resistance to acid 30)

Khopesh (Holy - Acid Burst - Acid Blast)
Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-16): 1d10 + 5 + base + 7 (holy)
Resist (17-18): 1d10 + 5 + base + 7 (holy)
Crit (19): 3d10 + 15 + 3*base + 3*seeker + 7 (holy)
Vorpal (20): 3d10 + 15 + 3*base + 3*seeker + 7 (holy)
= 23d10 + 115 + 23*base + 6*seeker + 133
= 410.5 + 23*base

Dwarven Axe (Holy - Acid Burst - Acid Blast)
Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-18): 2d8 + 7 + base + 7 (holy)
Resist (19): 2d8 + 7 + base + 7 (holy)
Vorpal (20): 6d8 + 21 + 3*base + 3*seeker + 7 (holy)
= 42d8 + 147 + 21*base + 3*seeker + 133
= 487 + 21*base

410.5 + 23*base = 487 + 21*base
2*base = 76.5
base = 38.25

Conclusion: Khopesh > Dwarven Axe if base damage of khopesh is >38 (includes power attack, strength bonus, bard buffs, prayer, etc. but not weapon enhancement bonus), unless the +2 to hit that the dwarven axe helps the daxe hit better than the khopesh.

A fully buffed base damage of over 38 requires (+5 PA +1 prayer +8 bard songs +2 shintao +4 eclaw = 20) a 46 fully buffed strength. So this is not really that attainable.

Lit 2 versus trash (0% fort, no resistance to electricity)

Khopesh (Holy - Shocking Burst - Shocking Blast)
Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-16): 1d10 + 5 + base + 7 (holy) + 3.5 (shock)
Crit (17-19): 3d10 + 15 + 3*base + 3*seeker + 7 (holy) + 3.5 (shock) + 11 (shocking burst) + 11 (shocking blast)
Vorpal (20): 3d10 + 15 + 3*base + 3*seeker + 7 (holy) + 3.5 (shock) + 11 (shocking burst) + 11 (shocking blast) + 14 (shocking blast)
= 27d10 + 135 + 27*base + 12*seeker + 133 + 66.5 + 88 + 14
= 657 + 27*base + lightning strike (~600 @ 2% chance = ~240 damage per 20 swings)

Dwarven Axe (Holy - Shocking Burst - Shocking Blast)
Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-18): 2d8 + 7 + base + 7 (holy) + 3.5 (shock)
Crit (19): 6d8 + 21 + 3*base + 3*seeker + 7 (holy) + 3.5 (shock) + 11 (shocking burst) + 11 (shocking blast)
Vorpal (20): 6d8 + 21 + 3*base + 3*seeker + 7 (holy) + 3.5 (shock) + 11 (shocking burst) + 11 (shocking blast) + 14 (shocking blast)
= 46d8 + 161 + 23*base + 6*seeker + 133 + 66.5 + 44 + 14
= 648.5 + 23*base + lightning strike (~600 @ 2% chance = ~240 damage per 20 swings)

Conclusion: Khopesh is always better. The degree to which this is true depends on your strength.

[Beethoven]

Then how come alot of number crunching posts have the Khopesh ahead of Dwarven Axe?

The difference comes out a bit low since the OP effectively compares Khopesh vs DA+Racial Enhancements. Many calculations have Khopesh further ahead because they also factor in other variables, such as:

* Warforged: many WF melee builds have no issue hitting things and thus can easily afford spend a couple AP on PA enhancements (say 3). That's another 3 damage. So, alone using the OP's numbers the WF Khopesh user pulls ahead by 4 damage a swing.
* Horc: they get +2 damage from STR enhancements alone (which also helps their to-hit). They can even more easily afford taking PA enhancements (say also 3). The Horc Khopesh user would pull ahead by 6 damage a swing. That's significant.

The second issue particularly with DA is that we still don't have anything better than GS. Run a comparison between a GS DA and a epic Chaosblade vs lawful targets (for instance) and the Khopesh is going pull even further ahead.

So, you are not wrong saying weapon vs weapon the difference does not look that large (same holds true with scimitars and elves). However, once you have a Khopesh user that also has some racial damage enhancements and once you include what loot is available things start looking a tad different. It's why we have a lot of players argumenting it gets time to boost racial bonuses a bit (ie: elven and dwarven attack and damage enhancements with their respective favored weapons) and (particularly for dwarves) decent epic versions.