About those Shadow Tombs

[Arianrhod]

Been trying to get PUGs together to run the Shadow Tombs (on normal, advertising for characters level 8-12) for a few weeks now, and having very little success. I'd like to request these be revisited sometime, and the difficulty level looked at. Mostly the respawns are the killers. The quests seem sufficiently challenging for an appropriately leveled group with no respawns at all; maybe it's time to get rid of them, or at least reduce them significantly.

As it is, a typical successful run in my experience has involved hours of battling through one Tomb, with multiple deaths (including the occasional wipe), at the end of which marathon the group falls apart and the process has to be started all over again (usually another day, as even I am sick of it by then) to get the next Tomb done.

I'm not saying everyone has this much difficulty with them, but it would be nice for an average PUG to be able to get through a level 8 quest on normal (not a raid or even raid prereq) without quite such a struggle. In my opinion, getting rid of the respawns should be enough to bring them down from "major headache" to "potentially fun".

[MageLL]

Yep I think this is a wildly un-popular series to most players.

[Arianrhod]

Soooo....I take it no one else even bothers to try these quests.
Guess everyone just skips to the Cursed Crypt series.
Seems kind of a shame, it would be nice to have more playable quests in this level range. I hope they get reworked someday.

[Lithic]

I kind of like the shadow tombs. Done them all on norm/hard/elite on my rogue (cept knight, still need elite) and for the most part it isnt hard to get a decent group together. Unfortunately, LFMs for these quests do sit there with noone joining, so I usually have to resort to sending blind tells to people. Funny thing is, ive noticed people sitting there staring at my LFM for 15mins, but if I send them a tell asking if they want to join they answer yes right away hehe.

[MissErres]

/runs away screaming!!!

NOOOO!!! No shadow tombs!!! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[Ghoste]

I really like the shadow quests.

My main worry if they do re look at them is that if they make them easier, they'll also lower the xp.

[GlassCannon]

Soooo....I take it no one else even bothers to try these quests.
Guess everyone just skips to the Cursed Crypt series.
Seems kind of a shame, it would be nice to have more playable quests in this level range. I hope they get reworked someday.

General consensus is general.

I don't mind suffering through it too terribly much, but I am a stubborn one that gets the quest done no matter what(unless the XP loss becomes too great, like -80%, then we try again after resetting it). I am more inclined to run it with my Monk due to the bludgeon damage he deals without the massive repair cost. Death Ward is a MUST in these quests and generally they are painful because the ghosts and such COMPLETELY IGNORE ANY AND ALL ARMOR CLASS(including Dodge and Dex AC).

[GlassCannon]

I really like the shadow quests.

My main worry if they do re look at them is that if they make them easier, they'll also lower the xp.

Just like they killed XP globally...

A merciless nerf to the most hated quests like Madstone and Crucible was unwarranted and unwelcome. I'd prefer the loot and XP for Trial by Fire and Prison of the Planes again to keep those off the LFM(Or better yet temporarily CLOSE the quests altogether) be issued so people are more inclined to do the Menechtarun stuff, or run the more difficult Gianthold quests.

[Arianrhod]

I really like the shadow quests.

My main worry if they do re look at them is that if they make them easier, they'll also lower the xp.

Thing is, the base exp for them is already low, compared to, say, the Heart Tombs. They could get rid of the respawns and raise the exp without making a dent in the comparative popularity of Gianthold.

[Ghoste]

Thing is, the base exp for them is already low, compared to, say, the Heart Tombs. They could get rid of the respawns and raise the exp without making a dent in the comparative popularity of Gianthold.

Compared to other quests that level, the xp is decent. If you can get through them quickly though the xp per minute is better. In the Shadow Crypt itself, the xp/minute is amazing.

[miceelf88]

Shadow crypt is IMHO the best part of the series. The others. Bleh. Just so stuntingly booring. The cursed crypt series is a lot better, IMHO, even tomb of the tormented.

I've had a lot of trouble finding groups for teh shadow stuff. And the requirement of death ward makes a cleric or a tricked out party pretty necssary.

[Ghoste]

I've had a lot of trouble finding groups for teh shadow stuff. And the requirement of death ward makes a cleric or a tricked out party pretty necssary.

Somany people run Tangleroot repeatedly. Every time they finish, most pick the +3 stat items over the goggles. +3 stat over deathward clicky!!! Sigh...

[Lithic]

Somany people run Tangleroot repeatedly. Every time they finish, most pick the +3 stat items over the goggles. +3 stat over deathward clicky!!! Sigh...

QFT, what a waste to skip the goggles that you can use all the way to lvl 16. I try to carry at least 2 pairs on all my characters.

Edit: As for the tombs, all you need is deathward on the guy with all the aggro. The caster of firewalls usually.

[Vormaerin]

The only real problem I have with the Shadow series is Shadow King. That is just exactly the sort of quest I hate, running around and around dodging respawns. That's the only quest in the game so far that's made me think "You know, I may just never do this quest again".

[Steiner-Davion]

Yep I think this is a wildly un-popular series to most players.

I'd have to agree. Though Saturday Night into early Sunday morning I finally did the enitre series on Elite with my lvl 16 Cleric with a couple of Pugs. It was not super easy to get people toin ubt they did join and by the time we were about 1/2 way through each if not sooner we had a full 6 man party for each. But we wer eadvertising for lvls 10-16. And while the quest were not super hard for our higher level characters, they were not cake walk either.

I'd agree the re-spawns need to be scaled back and the Wraiths (in all quess too) need tobe re-examined, as they go incorporeal and disappear way too often and more then a few disappear for long periods of time, making you think that they were all killed, until you realize the door will not open unti lthe last one is killed and it is no where to be found because it bugged while incorporeal or what ever it is they all do when they disappear entirely.

[Arianrhod]

QFT, what a waste to skip the goggles that you can use all the way to lvl 16. I try to carry at least 2 pairs on all my characters.

Edit: As for the tombs, all you need is deathward on the guy with all the aggro. The caster of firewalls usually.

Ah, to have a PUG that operates like a well-oiled machine and manages to keep all the aggro on one guy....

Seriously, I realize some groups can do these quests with little difficulty, even at or close to the appropriate level. But for random groups of strangers who are unfamiliar with the quests, they are both challenging and unrewarding, which makes putting together PUGs for them and completing them a chore.

It just seems like a few minor changes (such as getting rid of respawns, and maybe adding another named drop - deathward clicky would be nice - or raising the experience some) could increase their popularity enough to make them closer to "fun" and farther from "dreaded"

[Cuth]

I actually really like these quests the way that are and really don't find them to be too difficult at level as long as you have someone who can cast firewall. I agree that they are very difficult without a caster, but there are lots of quests that are tough if you're missing a certain class. (Gwylan's on elite w/o a rogue for example.)

I wouldn't mind seeing Tomb of the Shadow King changed so that the mobs don't respawn (I'm pretty sure that's the only one with respawns), but other than that I think that series is just fine how it is.

[Arianrhod]

I wouldn't mind seeing Tomb of the Shadow King changed so that the mobs don't respawn (I'm pretty sure that's the only one with respawns), but other than that I think that series is just fine how it is.

I thought there were respawns in at least one of the others - Guard? The one where the party has to split up to pull levers (red & blue). Either that, or there are an awful lot of shadows that disappear frequently.

[EKKM]

I did get lucky with PUGS and and finish three of them this weekend. I ran King with a group on Saturday night pretty much pain free. Logged in for a few hours Sunday mornign and got the first two. Each time went well but maybe I got lucky with good PuGs.

This is the first time I've done them ( I'm pretty casual) and I dont think they are hard, just long, really repetitive and the xp and loot stinks. That said, I want my trinket upgraded!

[Ikuryo]

The biggest problem I have with the shadow series is that they seemed to be bugged to a degree. In the one with the torches you are supposed to put out the torches put a curse on the mobs in the light of the torch that says it keeps the mobs from respawning if they are killed while cursed. This does not actually happen though. As a result you can end up with kill counts in the 500 range because of all the respawns. I end up feeling really bad for the arcanes that go into the shadow series. Their firewalls cause them to die soo many times.. I wonder how it is in there now that fire walls don't stack like they used to and you can't just fill an area with flames.