Pigeon Holed

[MageLL]

Rangers ARE DPS
Monks CAN BE TANKS / DPS
Rogues ARE DPS
Clerics ARE NOT REQUIRED FOR EVERY **** QUEST
Paladins ARE TANKS

The LFM's are getting crazy guys.

"Need DPS".. whats missing monks, rangers, rogues.
"Need Tank".. whats missing monk, paladin.
"WW 1-4"... Need cleric! seriously fnly?
"Hound"... need 4 Clerics... really?
"Shroud Completion".. don't get me started here.
"Reavers Fate".. going to wait around for 20 mins to fill 3 spots for more people to stand around and do nothing?
"Vale Looting".. need cleric, no you don't.. you need 1 caster.


I get it, some people aren't completely hip on the best way to play their class given a certain party makeup. But do we really need to pigeon hole the entire server because of bad experiences with said classes. If its that important simply add to your LFM PST before join. That way you can ask the person if they know the quest and understand what role they need to fill.

[Impaqt]

Rangers ARE DPS
Monks CAN BE TANKS / DPS
Rogues ARE DPS
Clerics ARE NOT REQUIRED FOR EVERY **** QUEST
Paladins ARE TANKS

The LFM's are getting crazy guys.

"Need DPS".. whats missing monks, rangers, rogues.
"Need Tank".. whats missing monk, paladin.
"WW 1-4"... Need cleric! seriously fnly?
"Hound"... need 4 Clerics... really?
"Shroud Completion".. don't get me started here.
"Reavers Fate".. going to wait around for 20 mins to fill 3 spots for more people to stand around and do nothing?
"Vale Looting".. need cleric, no you don't.. you need 1 caster.


I get it, some people aren't completely hip on the best way to play their class given a certain party makeup. But do we really need to pigeon hole the entire server because of bad experiences with said classes. If its that important simply add to your LFM PST before join. That way you can ask the person if they know the quest and understand what role they need to fill.

GOtta say I LOVE the extra notations people use in their LFM. Lets me know which groups to avoid.

[Bunker]

Rangers ARE DPS
Monks CAN BE TANKS / DPS
Rogues ARE DPS
Clerics ARE NOT REQUIRED FOR EVERY **** QUEST
Paladins ARE TANKS

The LFM's are getting crazy guys.

"Need DPS PST".. whats missing monks, rangers, rogues.
"Need Tank PST".. whats missing monk, paladin.
"WW 1-4 PST"... Need cleric! seriously fnly?
"Hound PST"... need 4 Clerics... really?
"Shroud Completion PST".. don't get me started here.
"Reavers Fate PST".. going to wait around for 20 mins to fill 3 spots for more people to stand around and do nothing?
"Vale Looting PST".. need cleric, no you don't.. you need 1 caster.


I get it, some people aren't completely hip on the best way to play their class given a certain party makeup. But do we really need to pigeon hole the entire server because of bad experiences with said classes. If its that important simply add to your LFM PST before join. That way you can ask the person if they know the quest and understand what role they need to fill.

So are you suggesting the changes that I just added above?

[Borror0]

Don't get me started.

I saw an LFM yesterday: a bard, two barbarians, a cleric and he was on his wizard.
I look at the class looked for: barbarians, rangers, sorcerers and wizards.

I send him a tell, asking him if he wants to take a dwarven battle bard.

Reply?

haha, no thanks.

Your lost.

[scampb]

GOtta say I LOVE the extra notations people use in their LFM. Lets me know which groups to avoid.

Those extra notations can be helpful for the newer player and seasoned players alike. It is nice to know if something is 'in progress' or 'know your way'. If I see a listing for quest I have not done before and it says 'know your way' I don't bother joining as I know the group does not want noobs, is not willing to help, will probably be difficult to work with so why bother. I say, keep the lfm notations there, it helps us determine which groups we want to play with.

[tihocan]

Anyone else finds that looking the LFM list is a great time sink outside of questing?

Some that crack me up most are those looking for favor. Like, a L6 fighter, alone, LFMing for "Faithful Departed on elite, need guide and opener"

[Beherit_Baphomar]

You know what LFM's I love the most?

A ranger and a sorc doing TBF looking for rogues, barbs, fighters and clerics.

Even rangers have no faith in rangers.

[Borror0]

= It is nice to know if something is 'in progress' or 'know your way'.

He meant checking classes off.

I put notification liek "Carry self-healing" in lowbie quests... 'cause I'm tired of those that don't have potions. And, it also has the benefit of scaring those who can't play well away. Honestly, since I put that notification up there, I have much better PuGs.

[Borror0]

L6 fighter, alone, LFMing for "Faithful Departed on elite, need guide and opener"

I love these.

[satya_sai]

I agree with you that sometimes lfms are or may seem ludicrous in regards to what people are looking for.
However, I notice that people seem to like to send tells to explain to you what you need instead of what you're looking for.
Yesterday I was putting together a raid.. I was forming up the party and had three clerics in the group, one of which is not a healing cleric, and two others who were switching supplies to other characters.
I got three tells explaining to me how I didn't need a cleric for my remaining spots and I was an idiot for not taking them instead.

I understand that sometimes people don't understand the value of the classes you listed for the purposes you listed, and may be ignorant about what your individual character is capable of.
But sometimes people may be just attempting to assemble the party that they want in order to complete what tasks are at hand.

If I'm looking for a barbarian, it's because I need a barbarian, not a battle bard.

[Ministry]

OMG... here we go again.

I have been wondering this and posting out here about this issue for over a year now.

I remember playing PnP D&D with a party of 2 or 3 and not having a cleric, or maybe no wizzy, etc, and dealing with the most challenging of quests.

It's really no different here. Last night We did the hound on hard with 2 Clerics and 1 Wizzy, a few Rogues, a couple Paladins and a couple of tanks and 1 heck of a guildy bard and 1 of the Clerics d/c'ed as soon as we zoned in and didn't get back until we were opening the chests, so again... that's 1 Arcane, 1 Cleric and 1 Bard and a mix of whatever after that, and we beat it on hard, and in about 12 or 13 minutes. Same group was going to try elite, but people starting falling asleep at k/b.

Honestly, I think it's because people really don't want to be challenged... they want it too easy.

We constantly run parties with no cleric or arcane because people want to work their monks or tanks or whatever and we are just fine.

Modify your strategy to work with the team you built, not build a team for the protoypical strategy (the only one you know or think will work).

What is the old saying??? There are more than one ways to skin a cat... something like that... in this case it's skinning a hound.

*Here's hoping Memnir doesn't put up a pic of a skinned animal now... please don't... haha*

Really though... I have been caught up in the past by looking for someone for DPS and hold out for a Barbarian over say another arcane or whatever and the Barbarian ends up being far sub par and adds no value to the party and costs the Clerics tonnes of mana to heal them. Whereas we could have gone with someone to help buff or heal the rest of the party who was doing what we need.

Open your mind, look beyond the 9 dots and think think think, trust me, it's a lot more fun to do it a little bit different and learn that there are more ways to...

you know...

[Borror0]

If I'm looking for a barbarian, it's because I need a barbarian, not a battle bard.

If you're attempting Gianthold lowbie run, you don't need a third barbarian.

I won't tell someone what to do, but sometimes there are some obvious moments where the person is just being clueless.

[Ministry]

If you're attempting Gianthold lowbie run, you don't need a third barbarian.

I won't tell someone what to do, but sometimes there are some obvious moments where the person is just being clueless.

Clueless or just lacking in imagination or desire to think?

I think that so many people hear or or see a way to do something and just never think there is another or better way, or just like the way they have been doing it and don't have the time or inclination to mess with their strategy.

I see so many people in society that fall into the "lemming" mentality and it's just really sad.

But, those people who get out of that mindset end up being happier and waaaayyy more successful.

And besides, if you fail, it's just something you've learned, and you can either slightly modify that strategy or come up with something else... I mean really... what have you lost, a few minutes and a bit of plat to repair all your items from the wipe.



My best memories of DDO are when we put a "whatever" party together and pwn the quest.

Me on my Bard, 2 Rogues, 2 Arcanes and a Pally way way way back in mod 3 or 4 doing the Caravan on Hard. No Stone to Flesh... just damage and people running around for heals... haha... we beat it and it was waaayyy too much fun. We sat around laughing about it as a team for 15 minutes afterwards.

[satya_sai]

If you're attempting Gianthold lowbie run, you don't need a third barbarian.

I won't tell someone what to do, but sometimes there are some obvious moments where the person is just being clueless.

This is exactly my point.
If I have the star, I need what I put in the lfm. Not what you think I need.
You don't know what the story is with those other two barbarians... They might be split leveled, switching, dual boxing, or ...I just might very well want a third for whatever reason I have.
If the person is clueless, then they're clueless, don't join. -shrug

And my point here is... I open a lot of my parties up to most classes.
We run without clerics or casters lots of times, but if I want a certain class for my party, and I list it that way, then that's what I want.

[Elaril]

I can't believe how many people get bent out of shape over the way that someone's trying to build thier party.

It's their party, not yours.

If you don't like how they are building their party, you probabaly wouldn't have been happy in that party in the first place. Make your own party, or wait for one to open up for which you fit the leader's requirements.

Yes, most quests in the game can be completed with any party make up given an appropriate strategy alteration. However, strategy alterations require that the players have a certain ability to either form the strategy or, especially, to follow the directions of the person dictating the strategy. The problem with pick up groups is that not everyone listens to strategies that they do not know (a group weakness that might become over exaggerated in the quest if you take someone who attempts to join a LFM for which they are not eligible...sending tells to explain you character is ok here, as it is a sign that you will actually think and/or have some consideration for the group leader), or becomes resentful at having to follow someone else's directions.

Also, most pick up groups will not have the same, or even close to similar, cohesion and response to the member's play styles as guild/friend runs...at least on the first run, so giving the quest a go with a group that the leader is uncomfortable with shouldn't be considered an option.

That being said, on the rare occasions that I do form a pick up group, I take the first five people who request to join. After the group is full, I'll explain what's what i.e. "we'll be running without a cleric, everyone bring at least some base method of healing yourself." I will not, however, even pretend to criticize someone for the way that they are buiding their group, it's their playtime and it's their fun. It's all too easy for me to make my own group, or join another.

[MrCow]

Its the fact that people also wait as long as they do on these kinds of LFMs for the ideal person/people that I tend to just go solo. I kinda lost the patience to just sit for 20 minutes and not start the quest for the courtesy it invokes.

Make your own party

There are enough times that I've made a semi-full party and the rest of the folks are too reluctant to go into the quest without the ideal party that its a rarity that I start groups.

[Darth_Sizzle]

OMG... here we go again.

I have been wondering this and posting out here about this issue for over a year now.

I remember playing PnP D&D with a party of 2 or 3 and not having a cleric, or maybe no wizzy, etc, and dealing with the most challenging of quests.

It's really no different here....

Hah, I stopped reading here.

[caliestro]

OMG... here we go again.

I have been wondering this and posting out here about this issue for over a year now.

I remember playing PnP D&D with a party of 2 or 3 and not having a cleric, or maybe no wizzy, etc, and dealing with the most challenging of quests.

It's really no different here. Last night We did the hound on hard with 2 Clerics and 1 Wizzy, a few Rogues, a couple Paladins and a couple of tanks and 1 heck of a guildy bard and 1 of the Clerics d/c'ed as soon as we zoned in and didn't get back until we were opening the chests, so again... that's 1 Arcane, 1 Cleric and 1 Bard and a mix of whatever after that, and we beat it on hard, and in about 12 or 13 minutes. Same group was going to try elite, but people starting falling asleep at k/b.

Honestly, I think it's because people really don't want to be challenged... they want it too easy.

We constantly run parties with no cleric or arcane because people want to work their monks or tanks or whatever and we are just fine.

Modify your strategy to work with the team you built, not build a team for the protoypical strategy (the only one you know or think will work).

What is the old saying??? There are more than one ways to skin a cat... something like that... in this case it's skinning a hound.

*Here's hoping Memnir doesn't put up a pic of a skinned animal now... please don't... haha*

Really though... I have been caught up in the past by looking for someone for DPS and hold out for a Barbarian over say another arcane or whatever and the Barbarian ends up being far sub par and adds no value to the party and costs the Clerics tonnes of mana to heal them. Whereas we could have gone with someone to help buff or heal the rest of the party who was doing what we need.

Open your mind, look beyond the 9 dots and think think think, trust me, it's a lot more fun to do it a little bit different and learn that there are more ways to...

you know...

http://www.funnycatsite.com/pictures/Shaved_Cat.htm
haha it is soooo tempting

[moorewr]

I'm with Impaqt - I use LFMs mostly to see who to avoid.

When I start a group I take anyone.. although I try to end up with at least one arcane and one tank.. and once we're in the upper levels a cleric... though I'm more focused on someone who can raise than on a full-time healer.

Hmm.. perhaps if when I run on my clerogue I'd put up "You'll be sorry if I'm your healer" I'll get the right sort of people joining.

[Ministry]

...

Hmm.. perhaps if when I run on my clerogue I'd put up "You'll be sorry if I'm your healer" I'll get the right sort of people joining.

Well... right or wrong sort of people, I'm not sure which one I am, but I love those kinds of posts.

Tygre does it best. Puts up an LFM for any and all raids and takes whoever joins.

I love the LFM's that state, no Cleric yet, so if you are not a Cleric and want to join, bring some pots.

Or, you have a couple of tanks LFM'ing and it's in progress (you can tell where they are - geographically speaking - in the LFM).

These are the best. It's like, "We are doing this quest and that's that... if you want to join, you are welcome, but you best be self reliant... or otherwise stating... enter at your own risk.

I find those groups are usually the best, and it keeps up those who are all full of fear.