Pigeon Holed

[juniorpfactors]

TRissa 16-reaver, titan, almost flagged for shroud, DQ, Dragon
Thetenth 15- almost flagged for Reaver, dragon and almost flagged for Abbott AND did the Hound of Xoriat quest last nite
Lanarissa 13- dragon
Scully 12
T'Nannet 10(8 cleric/2 rogue)
Roselyn 9-my current TS queen
Courwin (HEALING bard) 7
Healbotatron 5 (4 cleric/1 sorcerer) WF
Allura 4

Mama comes out a play alot, but when people ask me to do a quest, I generally help them. I like to help. What's wrong with that?

there is a whole large world out there you have yet to explore... take the risk the new raids....are nice hounds is fun,, sulu is fairly epic

jrp

[moorewr]

see bor you part of the problem...get off the boards....roll a cleric... every player should do their part and have 1 it makes guild raids so much easier... i enjoy playing some...nice change of pace... but both of mine are almost always close to timered

jrp

EVERYBODY should cap a cleric, just so they know what it's like. That should be, like, a guild rule..

Hmm.. say, on the userchannel tip.. maybe we should start one just for clerics, sort of a healer's "Anna's List.."

[Ringos]

EVERYBODY should cap a cleric, just so they know what it's like. That should be, like, a guild rule..

Hmm.. say, on the userchannel tip.. maybe we should start one just for clerics, sort of a healer's "Anna's List.."

I wouldn't agree with this. You know how bad some people are at running Clerics? About like me with casters...but people depend on Clerics in the heat of battle to keep them alive. I'm fine with some people staying away from Clerics!

[DoctorWhofan]

there is a whole large world out there you have yet to explore... take the risk the new raids....are nice hounds is fun,, sulu is fairly epic

jrp

I have explored alot more than you think. I haven't mentioned my 15 sorcerer, my Pallys, my rogue, my rangers, my monk, my fighter/pally, my wizard. THey are not listed and they have done things too!

[juniorpfactors]

I have explored alot more than you think. I haven't mentioned my 15 sorcerer, my Pallys, my rogue, my rangers, my monk, my fighter/pally, my wizard. THey are not listed and they have done things too!

lol I know that Doc

jrp

[moorewr]

I wouldn't agree with this. You know how bad some people are at running Clerics? About like me with casters...but people depend on Clerics in the heat of battle to keep them alive. I'm fine with some people staying away from Clerics!

Oh, I know, man, I know.

[DoctorWhofan]

I wouldn't agree with this. You know how bad some people are at running Clerics? About like me with casters...but people depend on Clerics in the heat of battle to keep them alive. I'm fine with some people staying away from Clerics!

...and that is the reason I do what I do. Everything else is not important.

[Dawnblade]

I think it boils down to trying to make the pug experience as smooth as possible. It's been my experience so far (been playing for about a week) that most people in pugs in DDO just each run their way once inside the quests and if everyone ends up in the same place is because either there was only one path to take or pure coincidence. You stop zerging for 2 sec and you have to open your map to find out where the heck everyone just went so fast.

Pugs can be do disastrous that being picky about who is in your group is one way trying to reduce your chances of having a bad time. That is assuming the worse case scenario. I think one should only be so picky when it comes to parties for regular questing. Raids tend to be a different story at least in other games I've played.

I do think that people should accept the requirements put up by the party leader and not try to argue what the group needs or doens't need. It's their group afterall.

So in order words, both sides need to chill out a bit. Pugs don't have to be perfect. Perfect pug is pretty much an oxymoron. So if you really needs X and Y for your party, you better look for people on your friends/guild list; especially because even if you do get that cleric you needed, he might be a sucky one. And if you want to join someone else's group and they not looking for your class at the moment you have the option to wait it out or make your own group.

That's my take on it.

[adamkatt]

nm..

[Talon_Moonshadow]

So....last night I was thinking about this thread....Trissa'a aversion to tri-classed char and my own frustrations with both a Tri-class and a Cleric.

I saw an LFM for the Hound raid, with only about 3 or 4 people in the group so far...
I applied with Talonkage......I was immediately turned down.
I guess my 2648 favor and inventory of uber itemds wasn't good enough for him......gotta love people who judge based on class.

I strongly considered joining with my Cleric, and then DCing right be fore they entered the quest......but alas, I'm a nice guy and would never actually do something like that. It did make me mad and hurt a little though.

But I saw a group getting blooded and my cleric happened to need to kill a few dragons so I joined them......they were great!
The easiest run I've seen in there yet. Then they did a reaver run......also easy, but most of them are.
Then I left them and joind a Let Sleeping Dust Lie group, since I still needed that one to get flagged on my cleric.
They chose Elite.....and most of them had never done the quest before......it was tough, but they were a good bunch of people and I was able to keep most of them alive.....maybe two deaths. I got lots of compliments for good healing and although challenging, it was overall an enjoyable experiance.

I guess it really comes down to how the groups treat me and how they play together. It's ok if they struggle, as long as people don't get all ****y about it, and continue to have fun. And actually, even though they struggled we did pull through and like I said I think we only had two deaths, so that might not even be considered a real struggle compared to a lot of runs I've seen.

Oh well, just had to share my latest experiance.

[cptcruch]

See this is where people with an lfm would say if you have those stats what kind of strength & con do you have to help with damage midigation and survivalibility. Most people when putting up an LFm want to know exactly what are you going to bring to the party if you have an unorthodox build...

You see the point of why people deny based on stats ... If they don't know you as a player and hear stats I can see where someone would say ahh no thanks I'll put the raged barbarian on the pitfiend....


Not knocking your build mearly explaining why some LFM'rs get denied ....

Durack i have a 32 str 22 con 444 health ac of 50..........so you tell me who can be more helpful? as far as the raged he'll run out of rages........and i can always scroll heal myself and raise dead! Lets not forget them runes that someone mentioned...

[DoctorWhofan]

So....last night I was thinking about this thread....Trissa'a aversion to tri-classed char and my own frustrations with both a Tri-class and a Cleric.

I saw an LFM for the Hound raid, with only about 3 or 4 people in the group so far...
I applied with Talonkage......I was immediately turned down.
I guess my 2648 favor and inventory of uber itemds wasn't good enough for him......gotta love people who judge based on class.

I strongly considered joining with my Cleric, and then DCing right be fore they entered the quest......but alas, I'm a nice guy and would never actually do something like that. It did make me mad and hurt a little though.

But I saw a group getting blooded and my cleric happened to need to kill a few dragons so I joined them......they were great!
The easiest run I've seen in there yet. Then they did a reaver run......also easy, but most of them are.
Then I left them and joind a Let Sleeping Dust Lie group, since I still needed that one to get flagged on my cleric.
They chose Elite.....and most of them had never done the quest before......it was tough, but they were a good bunch of people and I was able to keep most of them alive.....maybe two deaths. I got lots of compliments for good healing and although challenging, it was overall an enjoyable experiance.

I guess it really comes down to how the groups treat me and how they play together. It's ok if they struggle, as long as people don't get all ****y about it, and continue to have fun. And actually, even though they struggled we did pull through and like I said I think we only had two deaths, so that might not even be considered a real struggle compared to a lot of runs I've seen.

Oh well, just had to share my latest experiance.

It isn't my aversion, it is because I have PuGged SSOOOO much in the last two years and most of the tri-classes in PuG world. in a word, suck. Rogue tri-classes who are not locksmiths that join "Looking for rogue/trapmonkey" LFMs. Or a guy with 6 levels of cleric tries to join a as the needed healer. Or a tri=class that lies on his abilities then in quest, we get stuck. There are ALOT of VERY BAD TRI-CLASSES out there, and if you haven't PuGged like I PuG, and put up LFMs like I do, then you wouldn't understand how bad it really is!

Saying that, If I had a LFM up and upi wanted to join Talon, please send me a tell. I would hire you in a second, as long as you fullfill what I needed. Same as Ministry, Same as Eriik, same with a half dozen others. Why? Because I TRUST YOU and I KNOW that you can do the job infront of you that I required.

It isn't because I disliked tri-splashed classes, It is the fact that I have to look at the group as a whole and successful compleation of a quest. THe guy with 6 levels of cleric might go running into battle without healing anyone but himself, Or the rogue mix can't find his way out of a paperbag, or a 6 level caster with 300 mana. All of with (and more) I have expiranced. It made compleation alot harder or even impossible.

I know I think like the majority of casual players out there that PuG consistally. That's why I said it the way I did.

[Ministry]

Nope, I have tried it... made it to level 4.

Plain and simple, leveling a Cleric is pure hell and I've capped 2 of them now.

Try to find guildies or friends you can run with, even if you have to 2 or 3 man most of the quests.

Pugging at any level is tough, but at the low levels it is beyond excrutiating.

Basically... here is what I do...

"Okay team, I'm happy to be the cleric in this party to help you out, but I don't have any wands, so play smart and stick close as a team and we will get through this just fine. If you zerg off, you are only hurting the rest of the party."

Any time I've been the Cleric on pug group, I HAVE to assume control of the team. I give everyone warnings about what will happen if they zerg off and die, etc...

Now, if they follow my plan, then all is good and sometimes I will "magically" find a wand or two to help out if it gets tough, but if they don't listen, well... I lose my temper, call them all kinds of names and drop and find another group.

The great thing about being a Cleric... you can "ALWAYS" find a group.

I play my cleric to help the guild and friends and to find good items for my other toons.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

It isn't my aversion, it is because I have PuGged SSOOOO much in the last two years and most of the tri-classes in PuG world. in a word, suck. Rogue tri-classes who are not locksmiths that join "Looking for rogue/trapmonkey" LFMs. Or a guy with 6 levels of cleric tries to join a as the needed healer. Or a tri=class that lies on his abilities then in quest, we get stuck. There are ALOT of VERY BAD TRI-CLASSES out there, and if you haven't PuGged like I PuG, and put up LFMs like I do, then you wouldn't understand how bad it really is!

Saying that, If I had a LFM up and upi wanted to join Talon, please send me a tell. I would hire you in a second, as long as you fullfill what I needed. Same as Ministry, Same as Eriik, same with a half dozen others. Why? Because I TRUST YOU and I KNOW that you can do the job infront of you that I required.

It isn't because I disliked tri-splashed classes, It is the fact that I have to look at the group as a whole and successful compleation of a quest. THe guy with 6 levels of cleric might go running into battle without healing anyone but himself, Or the rogue mix can't find his way out of a paperbag, or a 6 level caster with 300 mana. All of with (and more) I have expiranced. It made compleation alot harder or even impossible.

I know I think like the majority of casual players out there that PuG consistally. That's why I said it the way I did.

I didn't mean to throw any blame your way....sry if I did.

I pug all the time....have to in a guild of two. lol.

There's a lot of people who have grouped with me and a lot who know me.....
But even then it seems that they are so quick to forget when making that perfect raid group.

Actually, I think most of Thelanis is very openminded in general.
But with raids it is very different. Especialy newer ones.

from playing my own cleric, I know how frustrating it can be when a group is in over its head...almost funny that I don't notice this as much when playing another class.....but as a Cleric you take responsibility for keeping every one alive, and get frustrating when they go get themselves killed by stupidity.

To get a littls back on topic though, since my main is an odd build, I feel especially commited to breaking this "pigeon holed" mindset sometimes.
I've also been so frustrated sitting around waiting for a group to fill up....usually waiting for a cleric. I know I'm not the only one.

I'm proud to have a toon who can get by without one....and fill any gaps in a party.

I've also had so much fun in mismatched groups....I think people are really missing out when they can't think outside the box.

Back in early gianthold days, I went through Maze of Madness with my cleric....we had three clerics, no arcane. I think we had a bard and a ranger and no sixth person. (someone might have had rogue skills....can't remember)
Anyway, we kinds douubted we could do it, but we did just fine and it was so much fun. End fight we just ran around through three blade barriers.
Did Tor with no real tanks......just three ranger(2 1/2 depending on how you classify Talonkage), 2 arcanes, and a clr. We did fine.....this was way before anyone respected rangers.

I've had so much fun in mismatched groups.
I've had so much fun with Talonkage and a couple other oddball toons I have floating around.

I've seen (and felt) a lot of bad feeling about someone not taking a certain class in a group for one reason or another. (Rogues in the Shroud for instance)

Games are a lot more fun when everyone can play.
Being picked last for the team is not fun.
Not being picked at all and not allowed to play is even less fun.

[Durack]

Durack i have a 32 str 22 con 444 health ac of 50..........so you tell me who can be more helpful? as far as the raged he'll run out of rages........and i can always scroll heal myself and raise dead! Lets not forget them runes that someone mentioned...

Was I talking about YOUR build or why people deny LFM requests based on being multiclassed... ??? The reply wasn't about your build but rather LFM denial ...... But thanks for being so quick to defense..Shields UP!!!!!

But yes now that you posted about your own stats I'd say viable..... and no need to have to explain further if ya did I wouldn't join that LFM anyways.....

[Ministry]

I think it's all about what someone said way back in the thread about averages that has a number of us suffering not getting on teams because we are not perceived as the "it" build / flavor of the month.

I can't log onto a Cleric without having anonymous on or I will be barraged with tells, but I log onto my Ranger/Fighter/Rogue and try to get onto a team...

Night before last, Faithful Departed LFM, need Rogue. So, I click to join with my level 10 who only has one level of Rogue. They accept and then the leader asks if I can handle the traps. I respond in laughing manner, "if I couldn't, I wouldn't have joined"... so he responds in a gruff manner... "Hey, I was just asking... "

I'm like.... do I just quit now... this is not going to be fun, they don't know me or Legion or think outside the nine dots. Anyways.... they know little to nothing about the quest so I lead the whole way, we run it, I do my usual and more... much more... in the end we fail at the last fight after I described everything.

But, I got every trap.

IT'S NOT THE BUILD, IT'S THE PLAYER!!!

Well... in some cases it's both... or a lack of quality of both.