Please Help Me Tune-up My Old 28pt Rog8/Ftr4/Pal3

[Line-dog]

OK I know he's multi-classed but I think of this guy as a rogue first. So, I've come to you guys for some ideas and insight. I want to dust off this old character and give him a new paint job and maybe some nice rims.

Original plan for the character:
This 28 pt. character was started in Mod1. I created him back when you could have Evasion while in Full Plate and the +4 to skills from Human Versatility was not a boost. After reading Illuminati's original Evasion Tank build, that was a Fighter/Paladin with a splash of Rogue, I thought that I would make a Rogue with a splash of Fighter/Paladin. This guy would focus on (but not obsessed with) being a trapbuster first, but still be able to Tank Up and intimidate a Fire Giant Champion. He has what used to be considered good saves, a high AC, and a respectable Intimidate. Someone later posted a build called Batman that became pretty popular. The Batman seemed to me more balanced than either Illuminati's or mine. Things have changed alot since then.

I would like to keep this character relevant and useful in the content they introduced with Mod 6 and 7. I would still like him to handle traps going forward. I think his remaining levels will probably need to be Rogue levels. I've got 4.7 Dragon Shards and the cash to respec his feats and Enhancements. Too bad I can't respec skill point allocation.

One thing I've found is that I _really_ need to start running Xorian to get a few Planar Girds.

He doesn't have a high strength. It seems to me, that to keep him contributing in a meaningful way in combat he'll have to use crit effect weapons. Perhaps I should respec for two more Imp. Crit feats. Also, since I have puncturing and cursespewing repeaters I thought I would add the repeater feat repeating xbows.

Human - Level 15.00
Rogue 8 (no Imp. Evasion yet )
Fighter 4
Paladin 3

Stats 
STR 14/22 +1 Lvl, +1 Tome, +1 FtrEnh, +1 HumEnh, +5 Glove Item
DEX 13/22 +1 Tome, +2 RogEnh, +6 Boot Item
CON 12/20 +1 Lvl, +2 FavTome, +1 HumEnh, +5 Neck Item
INT 14/19 +5 Head Item (only while Searching, and Disabling)
WIS 11/16 +5 Ring Item
CHA 15/22 +1 Lvl, +1 Tome, +1 PalEnh, +5 Ring Item

SKILL RANKS:
 5 Balance 
 5 Bluff 
18 Disable Device 
 1 Haggle 
 6 Hide 
16 Intimidate 
10 Jump 
 4 Listen 
 4 Move Silently 
18 Open Lock 
18 Search 
16 Spot 
 8 Tumble 
15 UMD

His Attack Bonus is currently only +24 with a +5 weapon but most of his cool weapons are +1 to +3.

EXAMPLE (AT PRESENT):
+13 BAB (Rog8/Ftr4/Pal3)
 +6 Strength
 +1 Burst light mace w/+10 to Stunning Blow
 +2 Divine Power
---
+22

Level 16 he could add 1 level-up to Strength and equip a +6 gloves (already in bank).

EXAMPLE AT 16:
+13 BAB (Rog9/Ftr4/Pal3)
 +7 Strength
 +1 Burst light mace w/+10 to Stunning Blow
 +2 Divine Power
 +4 GH (get some Planar Girds)
---
+27

ROGUE SKILLS WITH GEAR (no buff or boosts):
50 DD (includes +5tools) (HWM > 65)
48 OL (includes +5tools) (HWM 59-68) 
40 Search (HWM Traps < 44, Secret doors 45-48)
35 Spot (HWM >44)

AC 
10 Base
 6 Dex Bonux
10 +5 Mith. BP
 7 Mith. Heavy Shield
 5 +5 Protection Cloak
 2 Chaos Guard
 2 Aura of Good
 1 Dodge Feat
 3 Barkskin Pot (hotkeyed)
--
46 

 1 Haste Pots and clickies
--
47

 5 CE (defensive mode)
--
51

HP: 302 with gear (before buffs)

Saves
Fort: 26 (9 Base, 4 Con, 6 Feat, 7 Enchantment)
Reflex: 27 (8 Base, 6 Dex, 6 Feat, 7 Enchantment)
Will: 23 (4 Base, 3 Wis, 9 Feat, 7 Enchantment)

FEAT PROGRESSION:
 L1: Rog1 Toughness
 L1: Humn Iron Will 
 L2: Pal1
 L3: Pal2 Dodge
 L4: Rog2
 L5: Ftr1 CE
 L6: Rog3 Exotic: Dwarven Waraxe
 L7: Rog4
 L8: Ftr2 Imp Trip
 L9: Rog5 Bull Headed
L10: Ftr3 
L11: Rog6
L12: Pal3 IC:Slashing
L13: Ftr4 Stunning Blow
L14: Rog7
L15: Rog8 Nimble Fingers

These are the feats I was considering dropping:
1 Bull Headed
2 Iron Will
3 CE (problematic with clickies, wands, etc...)
4 Imp Trip (goes when CE goes)
5 Dodge
6 DAxe (Is the marginal additional DPS with these worth it for this guy?)

Feats I was considering adding:
1 Power Critical (this is in addition to the +2 to confirm criticals from Fighter Critical Accuracy I)
2 Precision (to help boost his weak attack bonus)
3 IC:Bludgeon (Banisher, Disruptor, Paralyzers, Stunning Weapons)
4 IC: Ranged
5 Exotic: Repeating Xbow (he has Puncturing, need to get more)
6 Rapid Reload

Other feats I considered:
Skill Focus: UMD
Resilience (to help with saves on uber trap DCs)
IC:Piercing (he's got Puncturers, and a rapier of Smiting)
2x Dragon Marks for Dim Door to help with his Rogue role. Perhaps two feats is too much of a sacrifice for a little used ability?
Khopesh (Green Steel Khopesh -- is this a huge time-sink for casual players?)

One thing I just noted -- to get the additional Improved Crit feats its going to take many more full Dragonshards than I have because my BAB isn't +8 unitl level 10. To get the IC feats i need, I'll have to bump the feats I took at level 13 and 14 and respec them lower to make room for feats I want to move into those slots.

Notable Equipment:
Minos Legend
GFL Belt
+5 Mith. BP
Chaosguard
+5 Protection Cloak
Karagan's Eye
Ring of the Ancestors
Bludgeon Banisher, Disruptor, 5% (+10) stunner, paralyzer
Falchion of Smiting (with IC:Slash this crits on a 15+)
Piercing Puncturers (rapiers and SS), Smiter (rapier)
Longbows Puncturing, Cursespewing, Distruction
Tons of DP clickies, tons of haste clickies,
+15 DD, and Search items
+13 OL, and Spot items
Repeating Xbows Puncturing, Cursespewing (should I take the feat?)

Any constructive discussion is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Hope to see you in Stormreach.

Cheers-

[Accelerando]

I really wish I could say you could save this, your to hit is way low with either str or finesse at this point. Let me
take some time and look at your build some more and maybe something can come out of it.

First thoughts,
you NEED diplomacy. it really is a shame skill point respecs are not available. Exisential Stalemate goggles from the shroud will
give you +10, I don't know where you can go from there.

Invest heavily in feats/enh that give you added to hit. That means weapon focus, Flanking bonuses, Sneak Attack Accuracy, etc.

You need a battle coin from the titan, or some other similar item.

In the shroud, craft a weapon for your offhand to give you exceptional strength bonus, that also frees up your glove spot for backstabber gloves.(That is Neg, Neg, Neg, or Water, Water, Water (Escalation and Material)

Switch every focus into Str, grab a +2 str tome, dump your next point into it, or grind for a +3 in reaver or shroud (although you would be better off with the cleansing shard.) With a shroud str weapon and a +2 tome you are hitting 28 str, which is not too shabby especially considering you can grab rage pots and hit 30.

Divine power clickies are your friend. Stock up on them in some easily swapped out spot, ring or goggles for example.

Maybe I can add more later my forum account is running out though.

[krud]

He is almost the same as NeatoMan, my human 7rog/4ftr/2pal (plan 8rog/6ftr/2pal). I still see hope for this guy. The good thing is you have plenty of feats to rearrange to salvage this guy (too bad you can't change them all at once), and you still can maintain a similar playstyle. You are correct to put the next level raise into str. You are also on the right track about the feats. I was thinking almost the same as you regarding feat choices:

FEAT PROGRESSION:
L1: Rog1 Toughness
L1: Humn Iron Will (--> Force of personality)
L2: Pal1
L3: Pal2 Dodge (--> you can play around with this one)
L4: Rog2
L5: Ftr1 CE
L6: Rog3 Exotic: Dwarven Waraxe (--> Precision)
L7: Rog4
L8: Ftr2 Imp Trip
L9: Rog5 Bull Headed (--> Resilience)
L10: Ftr3
L11: Rog6
L12: Pal3 IC:Slashing
L13: Ftr4 Stunning Blow
L14: Rog7
L15: Rog8 Nimble Fingers (--> IC pierce)

Your going to be using your puncturing rapiers most of the time. Precision will give you enough of a boost to hit most things (plus the half base damage will help keep aggro off you while you puncture them to death). I wouldn't bother with IC bludgeon. The paralyzer and disruptor are effect on hit, so IC doesn't help there, and anything you might want to banish can be punctured to death instead. I wouldn't get exotic repeater either, unless you drop both Imp Trip and Stunning Blow. You have plenty of other weapon options, and it'll require a few feats to make it worthwhile. Without your weighted weapon stunning blow might be difficult to land on anything but casters. If you want to experiment with your weighted weapon, you might want to consider quickdraw, to make switching back to your puncturer when you've stunned the mobs a little smoother. If you are still having a hard time hitting things, get a high plus weapon of destruction, or royal scimitar (in which case quickdraw becomes more desirable).

Skill focus UMD would also be another good feat. It's always nice to be able to UMD heal scrolls. With your HV boost, golden cartouche, and GH you should be close to 40 umd. As far as planar girds one work around is to drink a heroism pot, to give your UMD a slight boost, then UMD a GH scroll (burn a rog skill boost or HV boost). Then make sure you refresh GH while your old one is still active. Good thing the rest of your rogue skills are maxxed. With resilience and your pally CHA save bonus your trap saves will be right up there with pure rogues, so you will still be fully functional with traps.

Here's NeatoMan for some ideas

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page

NeatoMan3 
Level 16 Lawful Good Human Male
(6 Fighter \ 2 Paladin \ 8 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 229
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 15
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            14                    16
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         13                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             13                    16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 16
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 16
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               6                     7
Bluff                 5                    22
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             5                    18
Disable Device        6                    21
Haggle                5                     7
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            1                     3
Jump                  4                     8
Listen                1                     1
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             6                    22
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     2
Search                6                    21
Spot                  3                    20
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                3                     4
Use Magic Device      5                    25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Feint


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Resilience


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Imp Trip
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quickdraw?


Level 16 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II

[Line-dog]

Accelerando:

Yeah, his Attack bonus requires him to work mostly in a flanking position or to go after casters (which he stuns). Currently he has the Fighter flanking, and Rogue sneak attack accuracy enhancements. However, he can get seperated from the party, or is the last one standing due to saves, HP, AC, and Evasion. When that happens he can have trouble against a tough high AC adversary. I'm not crazy about using attack boosts but maybe I should warm up to Fighter and HV attack boost.

I really don't know why I haven't been using rage pots. I've been using Bark Skin pots for a long time. A 24 Str at level 16, plus Rage 26 Str, plus GH would go a long way to helping him when he has to stand alone against a tough foe. However, I hadn't considered an off-hand exceptional strength bonus weapon because my Dex is too low to qualify for the TWF feat. If I get a +2 Dex tome I could take TWF. WotA would possibly help him in combat. I took WotM to keep him viable for traps.

I wish I had realized how useful diplomacy is earlier when leveling him.

I have many 5/day DP clickies but most are in either the cloak slot (his +5 Protection item), or the boot slot (his DEX item), which is bad. I'll need to look up some of the other items you've mentioned.

Because I'm only playing 2-3 times a week, and my static group needs me to play my Sorc too, I'll probably be limited to grinding for one thing only; either the +3 tome or the crafting items.

[Line-dog]

I still see hope for this guy.

If I level something else up from level 1 to 16 I would like it to be something completely different.

Your going to be using your puncturing rapiers most of the time. Precision will give you enough of a boost to hit most things (plus the half base damage will help keep aggro off you while you puncture them to death).

I had not considered that. These days, unless I'm trying to save a caster from a beat-down, I'm very interested in keeping the aggro down.

I wouldn't bother with IC bludgeon. The paralyzer and disruptor are effect on hit, so IC doesn't help there, and anything you might want to banish can be punctured to death instead.

Another interesting point.

Without your weighted weapon stunning blow might be difficult to land on anything but casters. If you want to experiment with your weighted weapon, you might want to consider quickdraw, to make switching back to your puncturer when you've stunned the mobs a little smoother.

I've considered quickdraw many times because when I stun something at high-level they have so many HP that the light mace that stuns _so_ often, is not doing as much damage as I would like. Even shaman seem to have tons of HP. Stun, then QD to dual-puncturers would be awesome. Funny thing is that my Sorc does that to Ogres and Gnolls in the Vale to pass the time. Dual-wield puncturers and hit them with hold-monster.

Skill focus UMD would also be another good feat. It's always nice to be able to UMD heal scrolls. With your HV boost, golden cartouche, and GH you should be close to 40 umd. As far as planar girds one work around is to drink a heroism pot, to give your UMD a slight boost, then UMD a GH scroll (burn a rog skill boost or HV boost). Then make sure you refresh GH while your old one is still active. Good thing the rest of your rogue skills are maxxed. With resilience and your pally CHA save bonus your trap saves will be right up there with pure rogues, so you will still be fully functional with traps.

Good to know.