Did I nerf myself?

[Gordo]

I messed up a little when I chose my feats. I am going back to Fred to try to respec them. I am a level 10 monk now.
I want to specialize in quarterstaves (two handed fighting) I have the strength (17) and BAB of +6 but I can't get the option "improved two handed fighting".

My BAB says +10 but is that accurate for a monk? Isn't the actual BAB .75 times the level? If so, I still am above 6. Why doesn't "improved two handed fighting" show up?

I have level 1,2 and 6 feats to swap. Is that the problem? Do I get free feats to choose between levels 11 and 16 or are the rest all class given only?

Thanks in advance

[rimble]

You need to have met the requirements at the level of the Feat you are swapping. That 6th level Feat, your BaB was +4 at that time, not high enough.

You can choose a Monk feat at Monk level 1, 2, and 6. You get a general feat at levels divisible evenly by 3: 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15.

Your 9th level Feat slot should work (a pure Monk gets +6 BaB at level 8). Also, Improved Two-Handed Fighting isn't a Monk feat, so you can't use your Monk level 1, 2, and 6 feats to swap for it (I believe those Feat slots are colored Yellow when you go to swap, regular Feat slots are White).

[MrCow]

At level 9 you have enough BAB as a monk to get Improved Two-Handed Fighting (a BAB of 6). This means you would have to swap out whatever feat you took at level 9 to get Improved Two-Handed Fighting.

Also, in regards to your STR, what is your base STR? Non-permanent sources of STR don't count towards being able to get feats like Improved Two-Handed Fighting.

[MistressMayhem]

This may seem like a silly question, but have you already taken the (first) Two Handed Fighting feat. (available at level 1 assuming 15 STR.)? If so then (assuming your STR is 17 and BAB +6) you should be able to acquire the Improved Two Handed Fighting feat.

[Gordo]

Thanks guys for your fast response

1) My STR is a base of 16 plus a +1 tome so I should be fine.
Separate curiosity: If I had a base of 15 plus a +1 tome and a FEAT bonus (enhancement human adaptility bonus of +1) would that work too?

2) Under the scenario you guys explained, will I ever be able to get Greater Two Handed fighting? At level 15 maybe?

Thanks

P.S. MIstress Mayhem: I do have the regular feat two handed fighting already

[rimble]

Thanks guys for your fast response

1) My STR is a base of 16 plus a +1 tome so I should be fine.
Separate curiosity: If I had a base of 15 plus a +1 tome and a FEAT bonus (enhancement human adaptility bonus of +1) would that work too?

2) Under the scenario you guys explained, will I ever be able to get Greater Two Handed fighting? At level 15 maybe?

1) No, Base + Level Ups + Tomes.

2) As a pure Monk, you could take it at Level 18.

[Gordo]

18? Wow. that makes no sense since monks and staves go together...

Is it 18 because I messed up or 18 for anyone who wants to get it (greater two handed)?

[MrCow]

Actually, monks have a BAB of 11 (aka, before the flurry of blows added BAB) at level 15 so they can qualify for Greater Two-Handed Fighting at 15 if they have the required feats and STR.

Separate curiosity: If I had a base of 15 plus a +1 tome and a FEAT bonus (enhancement human adaptility bonus of +1) would that work too?

Enhancements are modifiable, therefore, this would not work to get the 17 STR required for Improved Two-Handed Fighting.

[Gordo]

So do you think:
At level 12: I can take Improved Two handed?
At level 15: I can take Greater " " "?

Thanks

[paintedman]

I thought that qs didn't get glancing blows?

-paint

[MrCow]

Quarterstaff gets glancing blows on the third and fifth strike. They occur on the fourth strike if you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat that allows it (I think..., not too sure on this statement).

[xanvar]

I am pretty sure I read that the two handed fighting feats do not apply to quarter staff. Don't want to bet the farm on it thought.

[rimble]

Actually, monks have a BAB of 11 (aka, before the flurry of blows added BAB) at level 15 so they can qualify for Greater Two-Handed Fighting at 15 if they have the required feats and STR.

hahaha, wow, I was looking at their Saves...wow, wicked brain fart...thanks for the correction...

[Dailus]

Quarterstaff gets glancing blows on the third and fifth strike. They occur on the fourth strike if you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat that allows it (I think..., not too sure on this statement).

Why do people keep saying this?!? The two-handed-fighting feats do not work with quarterstaves! Here is the devs quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyGazebo on 01/09/2007
The Two-Handed-Fighting feats do not affect a quarterstaff; it is in its own category. It does get a small number of glancing blows on its own, however.

Any feats for "Bludgeoning" weapons will work on a quarterstaff.

For reference, we divide combat styles into:
unarmed (no feats at present)
one-handed (no feats at present)
two-handed (THF feat line)
dual-wielding (TWF feat line, TWD)
staff (no feats at present)
shield-bashing (improved shield-bash)

You can expect to see unarmed fighting feats when monks arrive (since they're really a bad deal for anyone without at least one level of monk).

Quarterstaff is unlikely to get feats; mages frequently have them because they don't have proficiency in better two-handed things, but a mage would probably be silly to spend a feat on melee (and a two-handed-weapon-feat melee person would probably be silly to use a quarterstaff rather than a greatsword).

THF, TWF will get additional feats as the level cap increases. One handed and shield bashing styles might get more feats at some point.

[Gordo]

My understanding is that Improved THF has no effect but Greater THF does (with a Qstaff) therefore you have to take the "useless" improved to get the greater.

Pretty dumb. For monks, this should have been a class feat from the get go or something that made it relevant.

[Dailus]

My understanding is that Improved THF has no effect but Greater THF does (with a Qstaff) therefore you have to take the "useless" improved to get the greater.

Pretty dumb. For monks, this should have been a class feat from the get go or something that made it relevant.

I have heard people saying this as well, but you'll notice the quote from DeadlyGazebo say feats as in plural so I haven't put too much stock in that claim.

-Dailus

[Gordo]

So in other words, monks have a few weapons they can use of which a qstaff is a natural. For some reason most if not all other THF weps get bonuses but qstaves do not. Why did they do this? What makes the qstaff different?

[MrCow]

People are going to continue to argue that quarterstaves and Two Handed Fighting don't work with one-another until they actually test it for themselves I s'pose...

I did a bit of testing over the past few days when I could and this is what I came up with:

Using:

• +4 Quarterstaff of Enfeebling
• 29 STR
• Warforged Power Attack II
• BAB 12
• 1d6 + 31 damage

I am only counting the damage I did on critical hits. The average damage of my critical hits were 69 for the base damage. This is what I got as an average base damage for the glancing blows with the following feats:

• None: 10-11 average glancing blow damage
• Two Handed Fighting: 12-13 average glancing blow damage
• Improved Two Handed Fighting: 18-19 average glancing blow damage

[Gordo]

Interesting... It makes sense. Maybe a dev can simply weigh in on this issue?

[Dailus]

1.)Testing it in game has its problems since all stats are generated from random dice rolls. The devs have the code they can tell us how it works.

2.) Why do you want a dev to weigh in on this? I already provided you with a quote from Deadly Gazebo.

3.) As stated in the quote the quarter staff does not use the THF style. It has its own. The quarterstaff is only visually a Two-handed-weapon. By OP's line of thinking you might as well say improved shield-bash effects quarterstaffs.


There was a time folks would swear they got better loot for diploing the chest! Why? They just happen to roll better on the random loot tables and had a high diplomacy! That doesn't make it true.

-Dailus