Are paladins overpowered?!

[Gunga]

Thats not really an answer to my question.

I could say the same about survivability if you cant kill anything but what do I know.

You're right...sorry bout that. I had a 14 lvl pali before I crushed him for other builds. My experience was not that he couldn't hit anything, because he hit everything. It's just that he didnt do as much damage as or attack as fast as other builds, which really kept him low on the kill list. He was my first build, and not being in the top three kills as a meleer got to my ego so I killed him and rolled a barb (Gunga). The barb does plenty of damage, but he needs a dedicated healer like Borr suggests above (still don't get the fallacy comment). Now, I appreciate some of the other things he did well, like run stones to the shrine in a party wipe (survivability).

To make the classes more similar, by taking away ICR II, taking bulwork away, giving similar ac access to everyone AND giving more dps to everyone just changes the game from what I've enjoyed playing for many years. If this is what everyone wants, than that may be what we get: one melee class with a subset of specialties. Maybe I could learn to like that, but I would prefer that the game stays pretty much how it is right now, with the minor additions of a couple of decent pali spells, higher ac access for palis, and then onto druids (i hate monks), half-orcs, fighters and new content.

[Borror0]

To make the classes more similar, by taking away ICR II, taking bulwork away, giving similar ac access to everyone AND giving more dps to everyone just changes the game from what I've enjoyed playing for many years. If this is what everyone wants, than that may be what we get: one melee class with a subset of specialties.

I'm not tlaking about making everyone the same.

Shall I remember you that barbarian have Rage, while paladins don't. That paladins have spells, while barbarians don't. Shall I remember you that fighters have tons of extra feats. Shall I remember you that rangers got Favored Enemy? There are ways to play around the system without forcing into "roles".

Should a paladin be more defensive than a barbarian? Obviously.

However, Defense != AC, even if AC = Defense.

[Aesop]

Yes, but the problem is...

3 Base + 10 Cha + 4 Extra Turning + 3 Paladin Extra Turning III = 20 Turn undeads

20*3*16 = 16 minutes per Shrine.... and it'll go up with levels!!

yeah that's a pretty focused build there that sacrificed 2 feat + 6 enhancement points

also at level 20 one of these effects last 1 min

so at level 20 with all that you mentioned you have 20 x 1min= 20min per shrine

also that assumes that they only are using those for effects

I also would like Divine Might to be put in while it is a very short effect (6 sec) +cha Mod to damage is nice for a stat starved pally


but if we still think the duration is too long make it 10 sec +2 sec per level and also realise this only works if you are using a shield... more S+B love

[Gunga]

I'm not tlaking about making everyone the same.

Shall I remember you that barbarian have Rage, while paladins don't. That paladins have spells, while barbarians don't. Shall I remember you that fighters have tons of extra feats. Shall I remember you that rangers got Favored Enemy? There are ways to play around the system without forcing into "roles".

Should a paladin be more defensive than a barbarian? Obviously.

However, Defense != AC, even if AC = Defense.

OMG, man, what?

[Turial]

Yes, but the problem is...

3 Base + 10 Cha + 4 Extra Turning + 3 Paladin Extra Turning III = 20 Turn undeads

20*3*16 = 16 minutes per Shrine.... and it'll go up with levels!!

Could always change it to providing a shield AC but not increasing the AC of the equipped shield and reducing the formula for determining how long it lasts. End effect would be an increase in DPS and a small increase in AC; Paladin forgoes the use of the shield during the time the buff is active and uses a nice two hander.

Something along the lines of 3 seconds per 2 levels or even per 4 levels for an shield ac of +5 and up for paladins who happen to have 20+ cha lasting for 3x5 = 15 turns base x (8*3) or (5*3) for 6 or ~4 min of shield buff each.

[Borror0]

OMG, man, what?

I was trying to be concise, since you keep complaining I talk to much. What part don't you get?

[Borror0]

yeah that's a pretty focused build there that sacrificed 2 feat + 6 enhancement points

1 feat, right?

also that assumes that they only are using those for effects

I also would like Divine Might to be put in while it is a very short effect (6 sec) +cha Mod to damage is nice for a stat starved pally

I know, but... Turbine will balance like if we're perma-Divine Shield'd. Sort of the same way CE is a must have now...

[Borror0]

Could always change it to providing a shield AC but not increasing the AC of the equipped shield

The problem with that is... any other class would be gimped out because they'd be stuck with S&B.

[Aesop]

1 feat, right?



I know, but... Turbine will balance like if we're perma-Divine Shield'd. Sort of the same way CE is a must have now...

2 Feat you have Extra Turning in there and Divine Shield is a Feat on its own this reduces the already limited number of Feats a Pally can have


I wouldn't even mind a shorter duration effect like... 20 sec straight up kinda like an action boost

Aesop

[sago]

I play a Elf Paly and as a Paly you will always be the back up , the second fiddle, the not quite guy....I know this and you should know this. If you play a Paly you will never be the go to guy. Get used to it or dont play Palys.

[Borror0]

2 Feat you have Extra Turning in there and Divine Shield is a Feat on its own this reduces the already limited number of Feats a Pally can have

Logicly, they make an enhancement out of it.

I wouldn't even mind a shorter duration effect like... 20 sec straight up kinda like an action boost

I hate Action Boosts.

[Borror0]

I play a Elf Paly and as a Paly you will always be the back up , the second fiddle, the not quite guy....I know this and you should know this. If you play a Paly you will never be the go to guy. Get used to it or dont play Palys.

Thanks for telling me one of the numberous problems with paladins.

[Inspire]

I wouldn't even mind a shorter duration effect like... 20 sec straight up kinda like an action boost

Hehe,

30 Second Cooldown On Combat Expertise... 20 Divine Shield Second Spell...

I See A New Problem! Whoot!

[Aesop]

Hehe,

30 Second Cooldown On Combat Expertise... 20 Divine Shield Second Spell...

I See A New Problem! Whoot!

Its not a spell remember its a Turn Attempt

[Borror0]

30 Second Cooldown On Combat Expertise... 20 Divine Shield Second Spell...

Divine Shield would behave like an action boost and shouldn't turn CE off.

[Aesop]

Logicly, they make an enhancement out of it.

I'd call it illogical but whatever ... then they'd make it a tiered effect that added 2 4 6 8 to Shield AC and give it a min duration and thus cost even more in terms of Enhancments

I hate Action Boosts.

They are less annoying than click to use powers like Smite and the Monk ones... but I understand where you are coming from

ME

[Turial]

The problem with that is... any other class would be gimped out because they'd be stuck with S&B.

Shield wands.... rangers and rogues have been using them for years. Lets you trade off only a small bit of AC for DPS. Remember a paladin would need a 20 cha or higher for this to be better then a shield wand and I think 25 cha to be better then a normal +5 shield.

Remember most dps builds dont use shields...casters dont use them...bards typically dont use them... monks dont....leaving fighters and clerics behind.

One could argue clerical spell power is an ok reason for them to be slightly behind in AC...especially as many clerics I see dont use shields but hold two spell powering items.

And well fighters need their own thing...Dont know what it is yet but someday.

[Twerpp]

Action boosts in terms of AC arent that great, unless you can chain them back to back like uncanny dodge. If they lasted a minute though with a cooldown that wouldnt be bad. 20 seconds of +5 AC at the cost its at is some lameass gee whiz stuff though.

[Aesop]

And well fighters need their own thing...Dont know what it is yet but someday.

More Feat... no Feat, not Feet

oi vei

Aesop

[Inspire]

ME

Awww I Made You Guys Agree

/Cheer