Are paladins overpowered?!

[Rickpa]

I say yes!!

• They got high AC!!!
• They got high saves!!
• They got Lay on Hands
• They can land the highest criticals!!!
• They got Resist Energy!!!

Seriously, I'm just tired of people arguing in paladins discussion saying that paladins are fine, it's not true. If they were, you'd say they would become overpowered if they receive any "love". We're not saying they are gimps, unplayable or that you should stop playing or not be happy or either ES or DS... but they are not fine.

Thank you.

You can debate now.

No debate here. Everything you say is true.... at least until I got my pally to Gianthold. Getting ganked every visit by the marut in PotP raised a red flag. Getting one-shotted by the Reaver, and finding myself in passenger status in that Raid sure put a damper on things. And forget about the Vale and Shroud!

I did make it to level 15.

Only a dwarf pally has any hope of making it in the high levels. That's because the pally is lacking in, and needs 3 things to play high-level content. Hit Points, Hit Points, and Hit Points. Yeah my pally was a drow. I can't just make myself make a dwarf, and so it goes.

I needed a slot for monk anyway, so the status of the paladin class is of no concern.

[Twerpp]

I agree here, I think it IS possible to create an overpowered Dwarven Pure Paladin...cant say that about the other races for the most part

[Hvymetal]

Since we're way off the moldy op pali topic, what's your favorite rogue build? Would you splash it with pali?

Yes I have one splashed w/ 3 Pally (did it when trap DC's were insanely high), I am now liking my newish tempest rogue probablly 6 Ranger rest Rogue up to 20. (I know you weren't talking to me but I can;t resist getting into Rogue conversations ) And yea I would love to see the Druid. (OMG we agreed on something )

[Hvymetal]

I personally think that Paladins are fine.( now b4 you jump to any conclusions my main is a Pally).

Of course there can be improvents.... I.E. giving Pallys the intimidate skill. There is one thing that should be fixed however, and that is smite evil breaking your attack sequence. Other than that... the class is fine the way it is...

If I were going to go with a class that's needing the most attention it would have to be the rogue. Give them their job back make the traps so ridiculously high that a 90% Rogue/Hybrid can actually be useful again.... It amazes me that by taking 1 or 2 levels of rogue, that one can actually disarm/unlock/spot/search for 90% or more of all the things you need a rogue for....

Cash

Please no, I really don;t want to have to force my Rogue into putting everything into traps that would get boring really fast and really stop us from getting into quests that don;t have traps.....

[Hvymetal]

No, it isn't. In PnP you also need a rogue for Hide, Move Silently, Climb, and Bluff. None of those skills are needed in DDO, meaning the lower skillpoints of the non-rogue levels isn't an obstacle to handling roguey-jobs.

And diplomacy, and sense motive and..... (ad infinium..)

[Coldest]

Actually, that wasn't so much the point of the thread. It was to ask if paladins are so powerful that they don't need any "love".

So far, we got KaTet to tell me that paladins are uber and that no one can play one right but them.

You are calling out a group of many instead of individuals. That ain't cool. Good players can build and play good Paladins regardless of what group they belong to. I suggest that if you want what you say to be taken seriously, then sarcasm may not be the right approach. Had you come out and said: "I feel that Paladin's could use a little love in upcoming patches and mods and here is where...." then I doubt you'd have received the disagreements from many who are very happy with their Palis to date.

[Aesop]

This was a pnp example. Trust me though, I would love to shank me some ddo npc's.

p.s. Palys need kewler shields to bring back the s&b love, and the new mods that have been appearing is a good start. Maybe something like a named shield...

Tiamat's Rebuke
+5 mithral heavy shield
1d6 fire
1d6 cold
1d6 lightening
1d6 good
1d6 evil

Maybe that's overpowered, but I can dream, right?

how about

1d2 Fire
1d2 cold
1d2 acid
1d2 lightning
1d2 sonic


with burst effect of d4 for each

[Borror0]

You are calling out a group of many instead of individuals. That ain't cool.

We try to keep peopel that don't fit us out of our guild, maybe you should consider doing the same if you don'y like Gunga and Accelerando's posts.

Good players can build and play good Paladins regardless of what group they belong to.

Right, but paladins have issues at end game that other classes don't have. Don't see it? Fine.

A good players is going to perform better, but with players of the same level... the paladin is going to be more limited thna many other classes.

Had you come out and said: "I feel that Paladin's could use a little love in upcoming patches and mods and here is where...." then I doubt you'd have received the disagreements from many who are very happy with their Palis to date.

Right, I used sarcasm, then explained myself. Read the whole OP?

I have explained myself calmly, countless times. Click the search option, and search for all the threads I posted in with the keyword paladin. Enjoy!

[Aesop]

Click the search option, and search for all the threads I posted in with the keyword paladin. Enjoy!

dude totally unfair... I mean my english professor making us read war and peace was bad... but that's is just ridiculous


Aesop

[Gunga]

We try to keep peopel that don't fit us out of our guild, maybe you should consider doing the same if you don'y like Gunga and Accelerando's posts.

Actually, none of us really agree with you or like you that much, regardless of the way we individually interact on the forums. So, as a guild, at least we all have that in common...

Right, but paladins have issues at end game that other classes don't have. Don't see it? Fine.

Right...like fighters and rangers. The best melee in the game is not a pure class but a combination of three. This doesn't mean that you can't go pure class, just that there is something better out there. Don't like it? Fine.

A good players is going to perform better, but with players of the same level... the paladin is going to be more limited thna many other classes.

Nah. Maybe our experience here is different.

Right, I used sarcasm, then explained myself. Read the whole OP?

Who has the time to read it all. Being verbose doesn't impress me. Consistant, logical points made simply do.

I have explained myself calmly, countless times. Click the search option, and search for all the threads I posted in with the keyword paladin. Enjoy!

No. I don't buy many of your new explanations, so I won't be looking up your oldies.

[Borror0]

Actually, none of us really agree with you or like you that much, regardless of the way we individually interact on the forums. So, as a guild, at least we all have that in common...

So, your guild can't play bards properly?

Right...like fighters and rangers. The best melee in the game is not a pure class but a combination of three. This doesn't mean that you can't go pure class, just that there is something better out there. Don't like it? Fine.

You've missed the point, did you? (Yes, you did.)

You see, Gunga, it's not about multiclassed or not. It's about the fact that there is no incensitive to go past level 11.

But, if you want to compare multilcasses, a multiclassed rangers is better than a multiclassed paladin.

Nah. Maybe our experience here is different.

/whiperself Do not comment, do not comment...

Who has the time to read it all. Being verbose doesn't impress me. Consistant, logical points made simply do.

Make one? That'd be a first.

[wolfy42]

I agree that higher lvl pure paladins could use some love. But I must say.....with the recent changes they have made going past lvl 11 worth it for a paladin.

I'm not saying that paladins bonuses past 11 stack up to say crit rage 1 and 2 for barbs, but you do get some nice bonuses (and really what does a barb get for lvl 15-16 (ok willpower boost is nice). What does a ranger get post lvl 11 currently?

That being said they do seem to get significantly more bonuses all together at least that affect just themselves and not the group.

At 12 now I belive you get a boost to your smites right now...and the next one is 15? I forget but it's somewhere around that.....they are fairly significant even if only burst damage.

At 14 (think it was 14) you get your last aura boosts...which again....are nice and affect the whole party.

So much like a barbarian I see paladins really gaining from the first 14 levels right now with the last 2 being blah..

Yes barbarians out DPS the paladin significantly...but the paladin has alot of advantages as well. The problem is that DPS is well.....more important then many of the paladins advantages. How much help is +5 to AC for most characters end game at this point for instance? For many it makes no difference at all.

The bonus to saves is nice, but only if your next to the pally...and again in some cases it won't make a difference anyway.

Pally's can get some seriously strong hits now and use DS to add damage as well at the cost of a tiny amount of sp (1 a pop) and 10 hp (not a big deal since you can self heal so much and have high max hp).

Will you do DPS equivalent to a Barbarian? Nope.

But your not a barbarian.....your a paladin.

You have spells, high ac, high saves etc. You ahve 2 free levels you can take as another class to get evasion and use it much better then most barbarians would due to high saves etc.

Again....not saying that paladins are "fine"...or don't need love, i just don't agree that it is such a massive disparity right now (After mod 7).

I totally think paladins should have intimidate as a class skill. That I can get behind 100%....but seriously.......you can multiclass in 1 or 2 non pally levels easily since the last 2 lvls are not that important and get it. Yes....it blows that a pure paladin does not get it already. It detracts from the pally's basic utility which is tanking and protecting the group.

[Gunga]

So, your guild can't play bards properly?

Hello?

You've missed the point, did you? (Yes, you did.)

You see, Gunga, it's not about multiclassed or not. It's about the fact that there is no incensitive to go past level 11.

But, if you want to compare multilcasses, a multiclassed rangers is better than a multiclassed paladin.

You see, borroro, this is one of many, many crossroads where we just don't see eye to eye. My point is very simple: There are reasons to go 16 lvl Paladin. You just don't like them.

/whiperself Do not comment, do not comment...

extraordinary.

Make one? That'd be a first.

Whether you choose to acknowledge a point or not doesn't stop it from being one. Maybe you just have a hard time recognizing a point that isn't on your agenda. Cowdenicus used to have this problem too. Huh.

[Twerpp]

Can't we all just get along

[Gunga]

Can't we all just get along

Wouldn't that be boring. What are you doing twerp? Run a hound?

[Coldest]

We try to keep peopel that don't fit us out of our guild, maybe you should consider doing the same if you don'y like Gunga and Accelerando's posts.

LMAO. I am starting to see a very clear pattern with you. Whether or not I agree with Gunga and Accelerando is immaterial to us being in KaTet together. And us being in KaTet is immaterial to your thread. I immagine your sense of a guild is much like your sense of a thread. "It's my way or the HIGHWAY!" Flippin classic man.

[Twerpp]

Wouldn't that be boring. What are you doing twerp? Run a hound?

Im at work still cause I live in suckass Hawaii...wait a minute..now I really sound whiney.

[Jesen]

Sorry man, my mains have always been rogues and I love them but you are not out DPSing a barb against moderate fort with 16 straight rogue. Subtle backstabbing has nothing to do with fortification.


bye

I never said it did, but it does almost guarantee that you will not pull aggro on a long fight. I have a 16 Barb and 16 Rogue Both with Greensteel weapons. I know from being in both positions who is doing more damage. It does help to have a heavy hitting tank drawing even more aggro though

[Borror0]

My point is very simple: There are reasons to go 16 lvl Paladin. You just don't like them.

Right. There are reason for me to listen to all the Teletubies episodes, I just don't like them.

Whether you choose to acknowledge a point or not doesn't stop it from being one.

When a point is a sentence without explanation, it's not a point. Saying "paladins are fine", without saying why, is not making a point.

It's saying that paladins are fine.

[Jondallar]

It's about the fact that there is no incensitive to go past level 11.

DS 2 lvl 12; DS 3 lvl 19
ES 3 lvl 15; ES 4 lvl 18
BoG4 lvl 15