Are paladins overpowered?!

[Borror0]

I say yes!!

• They got high AC!!!
• They got high saves!!
• They got Lay on Hands
• They can land the highest criticals!!!
• They got Resist Energy!!!

Seriously, I'm just tired of people arguing in paladins discussion saying that paladins are fine, it's not true. If they were, you'd say they would become overpowered if they receive any "love". We're not saying they are gimps, unplayable or that you should stop playing or not be happy or either ES or DS... but they are not fine.

Thank you.

You can debate now.

[KoboldKiller]

I have had a Human Khopesh and Elven longsword Paladin. I liked playing both and I don't feel they were either gimped or overpowered. They fill a roll nicely as either a second tank (although I main tanked several times) buffer and second healer. I will not tell people how to play or make their characters but I still don't understand the stance that a pure Pali is gimped. Mine were and are pure and are not gimped.

*Edit

Sorry hit wrong button before I finished. Yes Palis do need some love, spell selection is weak and although a minor change has been made to smite they still don't feel like the defender of good and right that they should be. Pali auras need a little tweaking as well. In all honesty especially with devils now the Paladin should stand out as the ultimate power within the new raids.

*Edit 2

Look I know my post is a little non-specific I have a huge headache and probably should not have posted. I have a special affinity for Paladins as they are the only class I really played in PnP. Yes they need more love for sure. I do not possess the DDO Paladin knowledge that alot of you have to site specific reasons, I did the best I could. The Paladin should not be a second tier fighter IMHO and something should be done to make them more in line with front line fighters. Whether through enhancements or feats. I know this is not PnP but when I played Paladins were never second class fighters.

[Borror0]

I will not tell people how to play or make their characters but I still don't understand the stance that a pure Pali is gimped. Mine were and are pure and are not gimped.

/sigh

We're not saying they are gimps, unplayable or that you should stop playing or not be happy or either ES or DS... but they are not fine.

[Alcides]

Borr0r, don't forget.

• Turn Undead

• High Concentration Skill

• Raise UnDead Ability

• Dee Pee Ess!

[Twerpp]

I say yes!!

• They got high AC!!!
• They got high saves!!
• They got Lay on Hands
• They can land the highest criticals!!!
• They got Resist Energy!!!

Seriously, I'm just tired of people arguing in paladins discussion saying that paladins are fine, it's not true. If they were, you'd say they would become overpowered if they receive any "love". We're not saying their are gimp, unplayable or that you should stop playing or not be happy or either ES or DS... but they are not fine.

Thank you.

You can debate now.

I do think Paladins are fine.... and really Borr I want to see every class get "love" anyway. I'd love to see some Divine Champion stuff for Pallys, see WotA II work for Rogues, incentive for staying pure barbarian after 14, more high level spell selection for casters, better spell selection and bigger mana pool or healing enhancements for clerics to keep up with the current games requirements, much more useful spells far bards, PrC as enhancements for fighters and more useful feats, I'm even keeping my fingers crossed that everyone will be happy with their monk when they get capped and settled on gear and AP's.

Oh yeah...dwarf AC pally ftw.

[GeneralDiomedes]

You should realize by now that

- Righteous Fury is about 10 minutes of coding
- They haven't added it over many iterations of new Paladin spells
- You will never get it.

So, did we really need yet another Paladin thread?

[KoboldKiller]

/sigh

Sorry Bor see my edits.

[Borror0]

Sad that my trollish thread that took 2 minutes to write gets more reply that my long thread that took hours to create...

[Twerpp]

Sad that my trollish thread that took 2 minutes to write gets more reply that my long thread that took hours to create...

LMAO Im not done readin that one yet!!!!!!!

[Borror0]

LMAO Im not done readin that one yet!!!!!!!

Faster, faster!!

[Yaga_Nub]

I say yes!!

• They got high AC!!!
• They got high saves!!
• They got Lay on Hands
• They can land the highest criticals!!!
• They got Resist Energy!!!

Seriously, I'm just tired of people arguing in paladins discussion saying that paladins are fine, it's not true. If they were, you'd say they would become overpowered if they receive any "love". We're not saying they are gimps, unplayable or that you should stop playing or not be happy or either ES or DS... but they are not fine.

Thank you.

You can debate now.

Dude have you seen Hawtty Hottpants? She's fine and she's a paladin. RAWR!

[Falco_Easts]

Personally, I think Pali's are fine.
I'm on the flipside to the OP. I get sick of everytime someone comes on these boards saying how they ilke their Pali or love the new DS or ES enhancements the same people jump down there throat and tell them they're wrong and their Paili's are gimped.
Could Pali's be better. Of course they could. Every class could.
The biggest problem with Pali's at the moment are the bad rap there are getting from the same people on the forums bringing up the same stupid arguments.

*EDIT I will add although this sounds like a flame it was not intened as one. Well, not fully any way. Coffee just hasn't kicked in yet.

[Borror0]

Personally, I think Pali's are fine.

Please, rank me every from 1 to 10, all the classes. One being the most powerful, 10 being the least.

Done not factor only DPS, but all other bonuses. Elaborate and tell me why. Thank you.

[Chelsa]

Palys are the weakest of the melee classes because of stat requirements. They are not dps agro holding builds because the class is not designed that way. I am sure somebody will post a bunch of numbers and argue till the fat lady sings, but if you want to tank the Pit Fiend, for example, it is gonna be a tweaked Barb or a Fighter. When fighting a classic MMO raid boss it takes ultra high constant DPS and a Healbot. That is just the reality.

I understand that there are many ways to build a Paly, but when I am playing my cleric and doing the healing against a raid boss, I don't want a group a Palys.

Also I love my Paly. She is my main and was built during head start.

[Falco_Easts]

Please, rank me every from 1 to 10, all the classes. One being the most powerful, 10 being the least.

Done not factor only DPS, but all other bonuses. Elaborate and tell me why. Thank you.

Define power?
Power to generate DPS?
Power to keep the party upright?
Power of versatilty UMD, lockpicking, healing and melee etc...
Power to add to the power of those around you with bonuses such as Aura's and Song?
Power to be a solo player?

In a game like this, I don't think you can pigeon hole the "power" of individual classes. Each does there own thing for the greater good of the party.
I am not side stepping the question I just don't think it can be given an answer.

[Vormaerin]

Please, rank me every from 1 to 10, all the classes. One being the most powerful, 10 being the least.

Done not factor only DPS, but all other bonuses. Elaborate and tell me why. Thank you.

That's a bogus challenge and I'm pretty sure you know it. There will always be a "weakest" class if you are forced to configure the question like that. Its quite likely that paladins are that class at the moment.

The big problem with these arguments is that they completely ignore playstyle. If your only concern is capped out raiding characters, you are going to have a very different perspective on what is useful or not than someone who plays in a small slowly as she goes group. Paladins and fighters are very solid until the barbs get Crit Rage (lvl 11 & 14). At that point, both classes are going to gain a little more power by picking up something of another class than staying with their own and they are still going to fall behind in DPS. But that's only a matter of life and death to a certain type of player.. a common one, but not the only rational one out there.

But if you really mean that you aren't saying paladins are gimp, it might be a good idea to stop constantly staying paladins are gimp and all their new stuff sucks. You personally may not be saying this, Borror0, but plenty of your allies are. You can complete all the non raid content in this game with a 4 man group that has a fighter or paladin as its melee guy. Would a barbarian be better? Probably. Does that necessitate a constant pilgrimage of weeping, teeth gnashing, and the wearing of sackcloth and ashes? Or, more to the point, constantly berating the devs and any players who actually enjoy playing their paladins? I don't think so.

[Angelus_dead]

The big problem with these arguments is that they completely ignore playstyle. If your only concern is capped out raiding characters, you are going to have a very different perspective on what is useful or not than someone who plays in a small slowly as she goes group. Paladins and fighters are very solid until the barbs get Crit Rage (lvl 11 & 14).

The performance of the class at levels 11 and under is not relevant to this complaint.

It is an abbreviation when someone says "Paladins need love". Either he is mistaken, or what he really means is "Paladin levels 12-16 need love, because there is little reason to continue advancing in the class"

[Pyromaniac]

My paladin was overpowered at his role, which was being a bank toon. He's been recently deleted never to be seen in stormreach again.

[stockwizard5]

My paladin was overpowered at his role, which was being a bank toon. He's been recently deleted never to be seen in stormreach again.

Wow - thats drastic - I LOVE my bankslot Pally

[dameron]

I say yes!!

• They got high AC!!!
• They got high saves!!
• They got Lay on Hands
• They can land the highest criticals!!!
• They got Resist Energy!!!

Seriously, I'm just tired of people arguing in paladins discussion saying that paladins are fine, it's not true. If they were, you'd say they would become overpowered if they receive any "love". We're not saying they are gimps, unplayable or that you should stop playing or not be happy or either ES or DS... but they are not fine.

Thank you.

You can debate now.

If I were to list all the character levels, from 1-16 in a row, like so:

1
2
3
4

at what point do Paladins stop being "fine"?