Intimi-Cleric

[Lorichie]

So, being that i suffer from re-rolla-litus, im sitting here, shaking and twitching like everyone else, thinking about what to do now. So i go to Ron's trust character generator, and start messing around. Now my favorite character so far in two plus years has been Lorich. He's currently 11ftr/3pally/2rogue High ac, saves, with power attack for some damage, good umd, etc etc. However i didnt put intimidate into him. So, ive rerolled and am leveling a new intimitank, equal to the old one, but has intimidate this time. I just wish i could heal myself better while tanking, i hate being dependent on others if i can do it myself....

But his umd not high enough to reliably use heal scrolls, and hard to block and scroll at same time, and well you get the picture. So my challenge was to build an evasion/ intimitank/ healing/ umding cleric.

Now, i dont know how to export build to forums, so ill apologize in advance and wont put down every single item, but just throw something together real quick. what i really want to know is if its viable. Tomes arent an issue, loot isnt an issue, time isnt an issue, while i hate raiding, i will need to start sometime anyway so even raid loot wont be an issue.

Here's what im thinking:
Dwarf
11clr/3pally/2rogue

Stats:

Str: 16 (24 with tome and item)
Dex: 15 (22 tome and item)
Con: 13 (22 feats, tome, item)
Int: 13 (14 tome)
Wis: 14 (28 tome, level ups, feats, item)
Cha: 6(14 tome, feat, item)

AC:
10 base
10 armor (mbp for evasion)
6 dex
5 prot
5 c.exp
2 aura
2 chaos
3 natural
1 dodge
2 shield and armor bonus ac when fixed
2 recessitation (sp)
1 haste
9 mts
------
58 self buffed

could be higher with parrying/ insight/ chattering ring but 58 was my taget ac.

Hps around 350 ish unbuffed

Monks would give me evasion/ dodge/ combat exp
Pally boost to saves/ two ac aura
and cleric for heal

Now, couple issues, intimidate isnt class skill for any of those, so something has to give, however it would work for rouge. But id have to lose two feats, right now my feats are:

Toughness, Dodge
Combat expertise
Extend
Mental toughness
Improved mental toughness
Quicken
Imp crit, either pierce or slash

I think that toughness, dodge, combat expertise, quicken are staples to the build.

Since im really not damage build without power attack, imp crit could prob go, with one mental toughness.

I changed build to include two rogue instead of monk, having intimidate as a class skill is a must.

So, tell me what you think, tear it apart, rebuild it, whatever you want. but i want to roll something similar, 58-60 ac is what im shooting for (i really dont wanna count shroud and chattering ring as quite honestly my playstyle prob will dictate that i wont get them).

I know Combat expertise will break but honestly, i can map combat expertise, intim, and heal to my mouse so it shouldnt be so bad, at least not bad enough for me not to try it. if it dont work, it dont work.

Tell me what you think.

Rich

Edit: Race is dwarf, its two rogue not monk, changed starting stats

[Anthios888]

Samho's Holy Tactics Warrior goes for high ac and seems to be able to hold aggro fairly well, but he cannot UMD. He also doesn't have evasion, so it may or may not be what you're interested in. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=141649 .

Maybe you could adapt that style to more of an intimidate-evasion cleric. It is just hard to get intimidate high enough without compromising other skills you want as a base cleric. Im interested to see what you come up with.

[sirgog]

Playing a battlecleric as my second main, I've come to appreciate that Clerics get a different form of Intimidate to the Intim fighters and rogues take sometimes as a class skill.

It's called quickened bladebarrier. It generates about as much hate as a crit with a greataxe would - and as a bonus, it does a little damage too

[Anthios888]

Cometfall and bladebarrier get the job done* and save quite a bit in heals in certain situations. Your build isn't really specced for this without either maximize or empower; this will also affect your healing ability. Perhaps consider switching out a mana feat for maximize? The mass heals in the thick of combat will make you more of an asset to the group as well.

Based on your build, I wonder cleric is what you're looking for.

If you're just interested in self-healing and umd (and not the self-buffing and crowd control cleric offers), why not an evasion dragonmarked halfling fighter with 2 rogue or 2 monk? With 14 fighter/2 rogue, you could get max ranks in both intimidate and UMD, get evasion, and still have plenty of feat room for good DPS. If you're set on the 3 paladin, you could probably fit that in as well.



*True, there are other situations where the mass attention isn't viable, like in the new raids. Intimidate skill would help with that. As a battlecleric, I would substitute harm?

[Lorichie]

If i were to do halfling version, differences would be:

-50 hp: 305
+1 ac: 59 ac
30 umd (really only need enough for stoneskin, items) 32 with boost, could get higher with plus three tome and shroud items
buffed saves of 33 fort/ 31 reflex/ 31 will

and intim will be 42 ish, seems little low (20+3cha+15item+4ghero)

[Anthios888]

I forgot the halfling -4 to intimidate. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought 40 intimidate was enough to be effective most of the time?

What race is your build? I can't find it.

[Lorichie]

Anthios:

Cleric was the easy way quite honestly to solve the healing problem, what i really want is an intimitank that can keep himself healed and no one has to worry about him, whether it be tanking in new raids/ stormreaver, whatever. Certainly im in the beginning stages of planning it out, and youre right, i would rather just add intimidate to one of my emp/max bb and cometfall cleric builds, but i cant. so i have to build one lol

Please, feel free to talk me out of the cleric idea, like i said, it was just the easy answer, not necessarily the best atm.

rich

[Lorichie]

I forgot the halfling -4 to intimidate. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought 40 intimidate was enough to be effective most of the time?

What race is your build? I can't find it.

yeah, and while intimidating giants (or large enemies) its even more if i remember right. dwarf was the original build, halfling was my second (and mebbe not so valid) idea

rich

[Harncw]

...snip...
Str: 15 (22 with tome and item)
Dex: 15 (22 tome and item)
Con: 13 (22 feats, tome, item)
Int: 13 (14 tome)
Wis: 14 (28 tome, level ups, feats, item)
Cha: 8 (16 tome, feat, item)
...snip...

what's your race?

Why put lvl stat points into the dump stat of cha at lvl time, that lvl stat point could equall 2 or more build points?
Why not give it the +1 at creation?

[Lorichie]

what's your race?

Why put lvl stat points into the dump stat of cha at lvl time, that lvl stat point could equall 2 or more build points?
Why not give it the +1 at creation?

Dwarf was the original idea. I started with eight keeping cha bonus for intim in mind, although six base with plus two tome and six cha item would be 14. would be a loss of only 1 on intim score, for two more build points.

[samho]

If my memory serve me well, the MTS still limit your dex bonus to 4, which means any dex bonus your armor giving was cap at 4 unless you have the right class/level to buy those enchantment ( Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II, require FTR7 ) So use +5 MTS is no better than +5 Heavy Steel Shield unless you just want it for blocking.


Also keep in mind that once you active CE, you will not be able to cast your quicken heal (actually, any spell by your spell point) in the next 30 sec, the only thing you can relay on was your wand/scroll/potion. (CE will break as soon as possible when you use wand/scroll/casting, but the stop-casting-timer was still the god darn 30 sec) You also need to wait the same timer expired to be able to enable CE again.


Now let's speak with your original plan: Intimidate.


(1) How many intimidate skill mod you can achieve?

First at all, let's see the predicted intimidate break down within your current stats:

9 base
3 cha modifier (assume you can afford +2 cha tome and an item slot for cha 6 item, or you can have +3 cha tome with +1 enchantment and eagle's splendour)
13~15 item modifier (assume you can find an item slot for intimidate mod gear)
4 Greater Heroism
1 Prayer/Voice of the Master
30~32


I might say, according to my experience, your intimidate value may not work very well on hard/elite content and probably should give up the attempt on huge size target like elemental / most raid boss. Without the intimidate skill mod item equipped, your intimidate might got ignore by many monsters on normal. (My holy tactic warrior 2/e can't intimidate effective before he able to equip intimidate 11+ gear, but I love it so much right now -- yes, I could intimidate at new raid except boss himself, which is quite useful to split orthon / render to where you want to park them) So, your best chance was has the best intimidate item you can obtain and equip it every time you could. And, at least splash a level on any class which has intimidate as class skill, i.e. fighter or rogue.



(2) Goes for Halfing or not -- which you get +1 bonus on ac, you may suffering -4 size penalty on intimidate. Which can be grave for what you originall have -- neither cleric, paladin, nor monk has Intimidate as class skill, so your base intimidate was limited up to 9. (Your maximum rank in a class skill is your character level + 3, or half if it's not class skill).


(3) What you want your intimidate for? If you play a traditional balanced cleric, and you press the intimidate button (and success), you will have monster run to you. If you want to take them yourself, you need find a way to take them down (so you need a good melee ability -- either DPS them or WoP/WoE/Vorpal them) , or you want use spell take them down like blade barrier -- but as a level 1 cleric, you can only have 2 exchangeable spell slot in your CLR6 spell (so here goes Heal and Blade Barrier) -- however, CE was not an option when you use intimidate + blade barrier solution (because you don't need AC at that point and You don't want the CE stop you casting). If you want just intimidate tank them and let the other people gang / burn them behind, your CE/AC will work but you got to make sure you/someone could hold yourself alive. So you have to use this tactic careful.


.... will continue after I finish the other part

[geezee]

3 levels of Pally seems like a bum deal on such a low CHA character. For +2 AC and +4 fort/+2 Ref/+2 Will saves you give up 3 cleric levels?

[Bunker]

Intruiged by the build Idea, i read the whole post.

This is something that a lot of builders do when posting, exp: They post the self buffed AC of thier build but not really a practical number. You posted your AC self buffed to be 58, but I noticed in the list, you have CE. As Cleric is your highest of the multiclass levels, you obviously will be casting spells a great deal, and we all know that CE turns off with spell casting, so why have it on the list for self buff AC. Yes, i understand that you will have a 58 ac, and can see how you achieve thru the build, but the actual in-game use of that AC will be almost non-existant. Interesting build, keep tweaking.

[samho]

(4) UMD,

here's the break down what you may have in the current level / stat set up:

9 Base
3 Cha Modifier
4 GH
1 Prayer / Voice of Master
3 Golden Cartouche (remember it take away your neck slot)
20 self buff.

Which you can bypass regular alignment base gear's UMD, you may fail to bypass race restriction gear of higher level, not to mention high level arcane scroll. If you really want go for UMD in this setup, you may set up a plan to get cha mod bonus from green steel item as quick as you can -- it also help your intimidate (+6 cha modifier). There's also something you need to keep it in mind -- even if you splash a level on class which has UMD and/or Intimidate as their class skill, you only have 4 skill point per level (except on your first level and rogue level), so unless you forgo your concentration skill and put all point on UMD/Intimidate, you will have 1 of them with half skill point.



(5) Combat expertise

I guess I have a serious question for you -- do you really need the Combat Expertise in your build? My holy tactic warrior take it was because, I want Improved Trip badly enough that I don't mind spend one more feat on it's prerequisite: CE. According to the limited what I list (in previous one), there's many case that you better leave your CE off. The +5 AC is pretty good when you want tank, but according to your strength mod, your to hit modifier will be a little bit low after CE on (even with Divine Favor/Divine Power/GH). So my opinion on CE was, reconsider it again and make sure you know what you really can use it best for.

[samho]

Intruiged by the build Idea, i read the whole post.

This is something that a lot of builders do when posting, exp: They post the self buffed AC of thier build but not really a practical number. You posted your AC self buffed to be 58, but I noticed in the list, you have CE. As Cleric is your highest of the multiclass levels, you obviously will be casting spells a great deal, and we all know that CE turns off with spell casting, so why have it on the list for self buff AC. Yes, i understand that you will have a 58 ac, and can see how you achieve thru the build, but the actual in-game use of that AC will be almost non-existant. Interesting build, keep tweaking.

You can make a great use with a 55+ AC in many quest, include Shroud against trash monster except Elite Orthon/Devil and named, you can also make a great use with it in mod 7 raid. yes, I do intimidate-offtank those red name Orthon on Horned Devil with my holy tactic warrior 2/e, and I don't even pop up my CE Yes, maybe not that prefect since I still getting some damage, but they are not critical and it make the other melee in the raid focus on single orthon which can save a lot of healing resource from other clerics.

[Lorichie]

Thx guys, im gonna nix this build and do something different, it wont be a cleric so im not gonna tie up cleric forums with it.

ty again for the info.

forgot a lot of things i should have not forgotten, posted too hastily

rich

[samho]

I don't think intimidate - cleric (or battle cleric) is a bad idea since I'm very enjoy playing my one and go through many raid with him. But you may put too much goal on a single build where those goal could be resource intensive. And that's my point of comment -- they are great, but you have to make up the choice to pick what you really want and integrate your resource spending, include your feat selection / stat / and even your equipment slot.

I'm still looking forward for another intimidate or even AC type cleric / battle cleric build show up, so if you really want to play such an odd build (heheh), you could still re-plan your build and see if it works.

[Lorichie]

i am kinda retweaking it now, because it would be different.

the thing to remember is hes not a cleric, yes he can heal and rez, but he's not gonna keep the party alive, just himself and mebbe in an oh **** moment step back and throw out a quicken heal to the other cleric. But his job is to help control the mobs/ whatever while other safely pound the tar out of them. I know a lot of folks dont like this build and thats ok, im really hooked on them atm, and that may change in the future, but for now i like it.

After a little work, his final stats may look something like this.

20 str
28 dex
22 con
14 int
24 wis
20 cha

umd 30ish (armor/ weapons/ stone wands/ blur etc)
Intim i can get to 48 with 19 base +5 cha +15item +3 feat +4ghero +2head)

Ac went down a little, self buffed is 58 with possible seven more from shroud item/ ring but its not likely ill get those so i didnt include them.

thing to remember about combat exp, he's not gonna play as a cleric. i was only putzing around with this build as a way to be able to take care of myself. yes it may break and i may have to wait 30 seconds, but even at 53 at lowest, with stone, blur etc, my thought was id be ok until it cycled.

Again, this is all theoretical guys, and certainly not in league with some of the other outstanding intimi builds on the forums, but i already have a couple of theirs, i wanted to do something different.

again tho, thx for all the help

rich

[Harncw]

what's your race?

Why put lvl stat points into the dump stat of cha at lvl time, that lvl stat point could equall 2 or more build points?
Why not give it the +1 at creation?

what I meant to say is...

never use the +1 stat that you get from leveling to increase a stat that you had as a dump stat at creation.

you always should apply the level stat increase to your main stat... ie str for ftr/barb cha for bard/sorc

otherwise you are basically wasting creation build points

[samho]

what I meant to say is...

never use the +1 stat that you get from leveling to increase a stat that you had as a dump stat at creation.

you always should apply the level stat increase to your main stat... ie str for ftr/barb cha for bard/sorc

otherwise you are basically wasting creation build points

He doesn't put level up point on cha, just Tome/Item/Buff/ and maybe some enchantment, because it's not cost his creation point.

While Cha isn't the most important stat of Battle Cleric, it's a stat u still want to raise while you can (if not cost much) when you want INTIMIDATE. I don't see any problem on putting cha tome into this kind of build. My intimidate Battle Cleric (Holy Tactical Warrior 2/e) was eatting +2 CHA tome as well to raise his CHA from 6 to 8 (So after eagle's splendour he has cha 12 )

As for +1 Cha tome -- if you can afford it,why not? It means you can spend 2 Action Point on Cleric CHA I and combine it for another even number, which is another +1 modifier for intimidate. Actually, it's what I did before I got my +2 Cha Tome (then I release those 2 AP and spend it on something else)