New potion mechanics.

[GrayOldDruid]

so, while feared, you cannot see the logic in drinking a potion, but apparently its logical that someone can shield block? type in party chat for a remove fear? jump off a ledge to strategically avoid death? if you have to be an argumentative moron, at least go the whole way, don't half ass it just to prove your worthless point.

I bet you prefer to play all games in God Mode.

While feared, the one thing you are thinking is to protect yourself, so either running away or going completely defensive are your options - blocking, curling up in a little ball shielding your face and torso. Fear makes you want to run and hide and if you can't run, then hide behind your shield. So, yes, blocking while feared makes perfect sense while pausing to take a nice cool drink really doesn't. So, if you are feared, try being logical and Run Away or Shield Block till it is removed or goes away.

Rage - madstone or otherwise - makes you into a raging maniac heck bent on destroying everything in your path. While Raged - ie Berserk - you are not thinking about healing yourself or removing curse or anything else. Rage should make you immune to charm, fear and anything that would make you compliant. The cost of having all that extra strength, hp, speed, crit range, etc, is that you don't have the mental capacity nor desire to take care of yourself. Well, actually your Character doesn't. You, the player, may really want to heal your character, but this is a ROLE PLAYING game, so you are playing your CHARACTER and a Raged character won't think to heal himself.

As far as game mechanics go, yeah, being able to have your character drink a potion while feared or raged would be really handy and make it a lot easier to solo and do without any other class along to help out... but it would ruin the RP part of the mmoRPg as well as the TEAMWORK part.

[GramercyRiff]

I bet you prefer to play all games in God Mode.

While feared, the one thing you are thinking is to protect yourself, so either running away or going completely defensive are your options - blocking, curling up in a little ball shielding your face and torso. Fear makes you want to run and hide and if you can't run, then hide behind your shield. So, yes, blocking while feared makes perfect sense while pausing to take a nice cool drink really doesn't. So, if you are feared, try being logical and Run Away or Shield Block till it is removed or goes away.

Rage - madstone or otherwise - makes you into a raging maniac heck bent on destroying everything in your path. While Raged - ie Berserk - you are not thinking about healing yourself or removing curse or anything else. Rage should make you immune to charm, fear and anything that would make you compliant. The cost of having all that extra strength, hp, speed, crit range, etc, is that you don't have the mental capacity nor desire to take care of yourself. Well, actually your Character doesn't. You, the player, may really want to heal your character, but this is a ROLE PLAYING game, so you are playing your CHARACTER and a Raged character won't think to heal himself.

As far as game mechanics go, yeah, being able to have your character drink a potion while feared or raged would be really handy and make it a lot easier to solo and do without any other class along to help out... but it would ruin the RP part of the mmoRPg as well as the TEAMWORK part.

Decent points if you're talking about reality. But this is a game. First off, making it so a character is no longer fun to play is the worst part about this. Games are supposed to be fun. Next, factoring in role playing aspects to balance something has, is, and always will be a terrible idea. PnP is a role playing game. DDO is not. Last, not being able to drink pots while raged makes you LESS of a team player. Being able to take care of things with pots takes less responsibility off the cleric, which is a good thing. It sucks enough that clerics are forced into the healbot role in DDO, making them also remove all status effects DURING a big fight is a pain in the ass. So these new potions made barbarians more annoying to play, as well as clerics.

[Porkchop]

While feared, the one thing you are thinking is to protect yourself, so either running away or going completely defensive are your options - blocking, curling up in a little ball shielding your face and torso. Fear makes you want to run and hide and if you can't run, then hide behind your shield. So, yes, blocking while feared makes perfect sense while pausing to take a nice cool drink really doesn't. So, if you are feared, try being logical and Run Away or Shield Block till it is removed or goes away.

So why isn't it reasonable to drink a potion when your are feared...you know the one thing that will make the fear go away. If you can run or shield block, you should be able to drink a potion. And is it any more reasonable that I can't drink a potion when feared, but I can allow someone else to get close enough to pour a potion down my throat.

[Recovery]

Some people want the best of both worlds. So lets take it a step further for some of you. Lets just take fear to the extremes. You get feared you can no longer control your character. The game takes control and makes you run away screaming in all kinds of directions with absolutely no control.

I am actually agreeing with A_D here.. Fear should be something that is feared to get. You should not be able to just drink a potion and get rid of it. It would make the spell useless and mine as well just remove it from the game.

I am not even going to get started on the potions and raging issues tho...

[GrayOldDruid]

is it any more reasonable that I can't drink a potion when feared, but I can allow someone else to get close enough to pour a potion down my throat.

Good point. Even in RP, you'd have to have a deep-down trust in that person and PUGs usually don't lend themselves to that... LOL...

Still, it seems like everyone is wanting to have all the benefits with no drawbacks. It goes back to the whole, "Why even have classes and races?"

You want everyone to be able to do everything all the time. God Mode. And that is not fun. Rage has awesome benefits. It should have some decent drawbacks to balance it.

The Fear potion thing... okay, you should be able to drink a fear potion while feared.... maybe... Still, with fear, you're SUPPOSED to be not thinking straight.... so you're not thinking of not being afraid any more, you're thinking "OH CRUD! I'm going to dieeeee!" and running around like a chicken with it's head cut off. Not, "Wow, man, I'm like totally skeered... lemme drink this stuff and I won't be afraid no more."

And to everyone who says, "this is a mmo game" - you're only partly right, this is an mmoRPG - if you don't like the RP part of it, you don't like the whole game. DDO has CHARACTERS, Storyline, quests, side quests, objectives.... No, I don't "Role Play" in the game, but I do like my characters to have a back-story, moods, personality, style, strengths and weaknesses all their own. Stop coming in here with your "Toon" and demanding that my Characters give up any semblance of the Role Playing game that DDO is based on just so you can be a happy min/maxer and do anything you want. Go back to a console FPS where you don't need teamwork and you can cheat code to God Mode with your "toon" all you want.

[GrayOldDruid]

Some people want the best of both worlds. So lets take it a step further for some of you. Lets just take fear to the extremes. You get feared you can no longer control your character. The game takes control and makes you run away screaming in all kinds of directions with absolutely no control.

... actually, that might be fun... or funny... .. .. and annoying...

LOL...

[Lewcipher]

What's the point of a Fear spell if you can push a button to fix yourself in 1/2 second?

The point of a Remove Fear potion is:
1. You can drink it beforehand to get a saving throw bonus against fear.
2. You can drink it while suffering from a 10-minute shaken debuff.
3. You can pour it on someone else who is feared and unable to act.

The Fear spell is SUPPOSED to prevent all actions, except for basic movement. By rights you shouldn't be able to use any potions while feared. That you're allowed to use Cure pots is a gift.

What I don't get is why they didn't change the name of the potion. It's still called Remove Fear, not "Saving throw bonus against fear" potion.

*shrug*

[Indel_Eventine]

I thought the point of potions was to allow you to treat yourself, not others. Besides, it doesn't seem fair when enemy spell casters can cast spells while paralyzed, or that I have to chase a stonned Quinny around his cave, yet I can't drink a potion 'cause I'm scared. I can't even drink a potion of Lesser Restore when my charisma is reduced from the Quori spiders in VON 2...

/signed

And, let us not forget that the enemy can attack with 0 dex and 0 str (Have done both in the titan to the WF in the back room with enfeebling and maladroit - they still attack, we can do nothing in these cases).

[talyor]

Decent points if you're talking about reality. But this is a game. First off, making it so a character is no longer fun to play is the worst part about this. Games are supposed to be fun. Next, factoring in role playing aspects to balance something has, is, and always will be a terrible idea. PnP is a role playing game. DDO is not. Last, not being able to drink pots while raged makes you LESS of a team player. Being able to take care of things with pots takes less responsibility off the cleric, which is a good thing. It sucks enough that clerics are forced into the healbot role in DDO, making them also remove all status effects DURING a big fight is a pain in the ass. So these new potions made barbarians more annoying to play, as well as clerics.

So what your saying is having pots that only you can drink, to keep only you going, so only you can stay alive, so that only you can save the day while raged makes you MORE of a team player. while depending on a person other than yourself to aid you makes you less of a team player. i guess i am confused as to the definition of a team....?

[Scipio]

So why isn't it reasonable to drink a potion when your are feared...you know the one thing that will make the fear go away. If you can run or shield block, you should be able to drink a potion. And is it any more reasonable that I can't drink a potion when feared, but I can allow someone else to get close enough to pour a potion down my throat.

since a fear pot has an area of effect I think of it as more of a splash item instead of something you drink. The pot even has an arms in the air animation instead of a drinking one when you cast it on yourself.

digging through a backpack to find a pot is much more complicated then holding the shield in your arms (or what ever you have) up defensively.

[Issip]

The devs need to sort this out in the next mod. People can argue all sorts of insightful points and asinine points about all of this, but there is no way to rectify the current situation of certain potions you can drink and other you cannot drink under fear or rage. It is obviously a bug intorduced when they made "funnels".

If I can't drink a potion when feared fine. But to say I can drink haste potions, rage potions, nmemonic enhancers, heroism, etc. but CANNOT drink remove fear, lesser restore, etc., well there is no logical argument based upon anything anywhere that makes the current situation sensible or defendable.

Something has to give one way or the other, the current situation is BS pure and simple.

[Porkchop]

One way to look at being "feared" is that you are feared of whoever feared you. NOT that you are so scared of everything that you can't think of the one thing that will make you not scared.

[Arlith]

Some people want the best of both worlds. So lets take it a step further for some of you. Lets just take fear to the extremes. You get feared you can no longer control your character. The game takes control and makes you run away screaming in all kinds of directions with absolutely no control.

I brought this up in a previous thread. I think we should. When feared the computer takes your character and runs them away from the fight, for the same distance that mobs run.

As for new pot rules making barbs unplayable, no it doesn't. It just makes them reliant on others. Seeing as how this is a game designed to promote "party questing" and not "solo questing" it seems in line with their goals and with the original intent of the game.

[bobbryan2]

Fear really isn't the issue here.

It's obviously an unintended side effect of the change to potions. (I say unintended because if anyone had intended something half as complex as simply turning fear pots off while feared... they would have realized not to fix the old potions with the same buggy code as lesser restore).

It's quite obviously a bug. The fact that this bug actually brings the rules closer to PnP doesn't really mean anything other than the fact that they may or may not change it when they get around to fixing the fix to the fix to the 'upgrade' to lesser restoration potions.

And as facinating as all the posts are with the subjects of "YOURE FEARED YOU CANT DRINK POTS" to "YOURE RAGED YOU CANT DRINK POTS" all the way to "ITS MADSTONE RAGE DUH".

Had they actually gone and tried to fix them so they won't work while feared... they woulda noticed them not working with any other casting issues.

Please just ask them to fix potions before they go about with more complicated fixes such as turning off some potions while under certain status effects.

[GramercyRiff]

And to everyone who says, "this is a mmo game" - you're only partly right, this is an mmoRPG - if you don't like the RP part of it, you don't like the whole game. DDO has CHARACTERS, Storyline, quests, side quests, objectives.... No, I don't "Role Play" in the game, but I do like my characters to have a back-story, moods, personality, style, strengths and weaknesses all their own. Stop coming in here with your "Toon" and demanding that my Characters give up any semblance of the Role Playing game that DDO is based on just so you can be a happy min/maxer and do anything you want. Go back to a console FPS where you don't need teamwork and you can cheat code to God Mode with your "toon" all you want.

Actually I'm all for people wanting to role play. I love PnP and the role playing aspect. But this environment isn't as conducive to doing that as it is in PnP. You have to have everyone else role playing along with you for it to have any weight or substance. In PnP it's a given that everyone is gonna role play their character. In DDO, not so much. The RPG part of the MMORPG is just a few words added in because all MMORPG's are influenced heavily by real RPG's.

I still hold firm that it's a huge mistake to base play mechanics balance on any role playing aspect. The rules should never dictate how you role paly, that is entirely up you and your imagination; it shouldn't be limited by rules. The rules exist for how encounters play out. They're two completely different (or should be) things. Look no further than 4E for a good example of this.

The bottom line, however, is some rules make a game not fun. Rules like this should always be abolished or rewritten/reworked. Everyone plays a game to have fun (DnD/DDO specifically in this case), whether it's for role play or for the crunchier aspects. This is why WotC made 4E. Without the vast disparity between melee and casting classes, the game is far more interesting and fun. Fun for everyone is the main goal of any game. The potion issue is similar in that you vastly reduce a character's fun factor, just as the uberness of Clerics and Wizards in 3E PnP could reduce the fun of playing melee.

[bobbryan2]

So what your saying is having pots that only you can drink, to keep only you going, so only you can stay alive, so that only you can save the day while raged makes you MORE of a team player. while depending on a person other than yourself to aid you makes you less of a team player. i guess i am confused as to the definition of a team....?

It's part of the definition that says that being a PART of the team means being someone that is contributing, not someone that is draining the blood off the team like a leech.

Characters in D&D aren't supposed to be completely dependant upon other players like a blood-sucking organism. The best teams are the ones made up of 6 indepedant characters working together.

[Dexxaan]

The new potion behaviour just sucks.

Running a self sufficient Barb has become a nightmare again (remember lesser restore?) only this time we have curse and fear pots we cannot use when raged.

The only potions that you should be able to use on someone else is remove paralysis, cure wounds and lesser restore for those helpless situations.

Rather than helping make groups more self sufficient and less of a need for a cleric in group this new behaviour just penalizes those who do try and be self sufficient and makes the need for a cleric or wand whipper even more necessary.

When I go to buy my potions give me the option to buy with a funnel or without. If I buy without a funnel then I get the old style pots that are only self use (behave as per original potions).

If I want to be a good samaritan and carry pots for others (I won't unless one of the three scenarios above, up to everyone to be self sufficient) then I'll buy the funnel ones (that behave like clickies).

How hard would it be to add the original pots back into vendors lists and add a (with funnel) after the new ones in the list?

Self Sufficient Barbarian. You are self sufficient as long as: a) You don´t go into a self inflicted frenzied rage; b) Don´t get Madstone raged (even a beholder can´t dispel it) ; or c) Get Feared (Terrified...think PK only you won´t die from it)

I believe this goes for the while "feared" condition also. Was running Tangleroot with a group last night and the Witchdoctor cast it on 4 members of the party in one shot. The slight panic that followed was quite fun.

It does make Party composition a bit more interesting doesnt it? (or careful planning...like Reaver Ring? and yes I´m aware TRoot is low level..was just making a point of gear-prevention)

Nothing like dying because you couldn't drink a Cure potion, because you are feared and couldn't drink a remove fear potion.
What's the point of a remove fear potion if I can't drink it when feared????

W-T-F!
Change this back ASAP!

The purpose is to give you a save vs feear..not invulnerable to it...play a Paladin if this bothers you.

What's the point of a Fear spell if you can push a button to fix yourself in 1/2 second?

The point of a Remove Fear potion is:
1. You can drink it beforehand to get a saving throw bonus against fear.
2. You can drink it while suffering from a 10-minute shaken debuff.
3. You can pour it on someone else who is feared and unable to act.

The Fear spell is SUPPOSED to prevent all actions, except for basic movement. By rights you shouldn't be able to use any potions while feared. That you're allowed to use Cure pots is a gift.

KACHINGO! We have a winner!! Thank You A_D.

The "fear" effect when you fail is absolute terror. In PnP, if I remember correctly, you are forced to run from the fight, and nothing else. Fear is completely irrational. Sure, it makes logical sence, chug the potion and get better. When you are afraid you are not going to think that one bit. If you've never been scared crapless in your life, it is something hard to understand.

Agreed completely M_M. and for those reading...ever tried to bribe a Third World Drunken ****ed Off Cop pointing a Gun at your eyesocket?.....Thats Fear. trust me if I had a "Remove COP" Potion I would have forgotten I had it..If It was handed to me I would have dropped it...you whiners have no idea what you are talking about.

I thought the point of potions was to allow you to treat yourself, not others. Besides, it doesn't seem fair when enemy spell casters can cast spells while paralyzed, or that I have to chase a stonned Quinny around his cave, yet I can't drink a potion 'cause I'm scared. I can't even drink a potion of Lesser Restore when my charisma is reduced from the Quori spiders in VON 2...

/signed

I agree that some Mobs can be paralyzed and still do their spellcasting, Spear Launching and fix Dinner...BUT Thats no excuse for allowing US the playerbase of expecting benevolent moronic bugs to make the game "playable".

so, while feared, you cannot see the logic in drinking a potion, but apparently its logical that someone can shield block? type in party chat for a remove fear? jump off a ledge to strategically avoid death? if you have to be an argumentative moron, at least go the whole way, don't half ass it just to prove your worthless point.

I guess we don´t like trying to reason through our differences do we....and we resort to insults and intimidation....You must be an angry middle child.

We need to get to the point where we stop comparing this game to PnP. Sure it's nice to know the rules and compare to two, but they are two completely different games in the way they play. If monsters behaved and worked under the same rules we do, I'd be all for strict interpretation. The fact is PnP and DDO are similar in name only.

As for the new pots...I've parked my Barbarian and he won't come out to play until this is fixed. It's a horrible change if it makes a character unplayable.

Fixed? or Nerf the GAME in favor of the most overpowered Fighter class out there. (And I enjoy my Barbarian...it´s just that I accept the price of my Cyclone-Like death dealing.

I bet you prefer to play all games in God Mode.

While feared, the one thing you are thinking is to protect yourself, so either running away or going completely defensive are your options - blocking, curling up in a little ball shielding your face and torso. Fear makes you want to run and hide and if you can't run, then hide behind your shield. So, yes, blocking while feared makes perfect sense while pausing to take a nice cool drink really doesn't. So, if you are feared, try being logical and Run Away or Shield Block till it is removed or goes away.

Rage - madstone or otherwise - makes you into a raging maniac heck bent on destroying everything in your path. While Raged - ie Berserk - you are not thinking about healing yourself or removing curse or anything else. Rage should make you immune to charm, fear and anything that would make you compliant. The cost of having all that extra strength, hp, speed, crit range, etc, is that you don't have the mental capacity nor desire to take care of yourself. Well, actually your Character doesn't. You, the player, may really want to heal your character, but this is a ROLE PLAYING game, so you are playing your CHARACTER and a Raged character won't think to heal himself.

As far as game mechanics go, yeah, being able to have your character drink a potion while feared or raged would be really handy and make it a lot easier to solo and do without any other class along to help out... but it would ruin the RP part of the mmoRPg as well as the TEAMWORK part.

Agreed, most defenders of the needed "Fix" are God Mode Console players...8 outta 10.

Some people want the best of both worlds. So lets take it a step further for some of you. Lets just take fear to the extremes. You get feared you can no longer control your character. The game takes control and makes you run away screaming in all kinds of directions with absolutely no control.

I am actually agreeing with A_D here.. Fear should be something that is feared to get. You should not be able to just drink a potion and get rid of it. It would make the spell useless and mine as well just remove it from the game.

I am not even going to get started on the potions and raging issues tho...

KACHINGO!! We have another clear winner.

So what your saying is having pots that only you can drink, to keep only you going, so only you can stay alive, so that only you can save the day while raged makes you MORE of a team player. while depending on a person other than yourself to aid you makes you less of a team player. i guess i am confused as to the definition of a team....?

Excellent point. Barbarian team Player...in reality and/or RP terms.... simply not too picturable is it??

The devs need to sort this out in the next mod. People can argue all sorts of insightful points and asinine points about all of this, but there is no way to rectify the current situation of certain potions you can drink and other you cannot drink under fear or rage. It is obviously a bug intorduced when they made "funnels".

If I can't drink a potion when feared fine. But to say I can drink haste potions, rage potions, nmemonic enhancers, heroism, etc. but CANNOT drink remove fear, lesser restore, etc., well there is no logical argument based upon anything anywhere that makes the current situation sensible or defendable.

Something has to give one way or the other, the current situation is BS pure and simple.

Pure and Simple please read the review...plain and simple you are Raging or you are feared, regardless of class you cannot and will not be ABLE to medicate yourself.....it really doesnt get more PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

One way to look at being "feared" is that you are feared of whoever feared you. NOT that you are so scared of everything that you can't think of the one thing that will make you not scared.

Agreed...Thats 1 way. Unfortunately there´s a thousand ways to be feared and nor YOU nor I are in charge of determining how we get feared...plus it really is irrelevant...you are TERRIFIED...not just afraid.

Fear really isn't the issue here. Yes it is...and so is Rage...wait and see your own response..you´ll see it is.

(Of course Bobbryan2 had to pop into every whining POT thread)

It's obviously an unintended side effect of the change to potions. (I say unintended because if anyone had intended something half as complex as simply turning fear pots off while feared... they would have realized not to fix the old potions with the same buggy code as lesser restore).

It's quite obviously a bug. The fact that this bug actually brings the rules closer to PnP doesn't really mean anything other than the fact that they may or may not change it when they get around to fixing the fix to the fix to the 'upgrade' to lesser restoration potions.

Your trying to make us think that the Devs made a mistake now? Is that your sly attempt at getting things reversed in your petty favor?

And as facinating as all the posts are with the subjects of "YOURE FEARED YOU CANT DRINK POTS" to "YOURE RAGED YOU CANT DRINK POTS" all the way to "ITS MADSTONE RAGE DUH". YOU find Logic, deductive reasoning and accurate observations fascinating? I´ve seen your responses to these and ...pls don´t BS us...

Please just ask them to fix potions before they go about with more complicated fixes such as turning off some potions while under certain status effects.

How about we don´t...and maybe ask the DEVS to provide some content with non-fear inducing mobs...how about a Bunny rabbit slaughter campaign were you and the whiner-pot-threaders can get an extra 20% XP´s if you avoid getting feared?

PLEASE DEVS.....YET ANOTHER WHINING THREAD.....NOTHING TO SEE HERE JUST US IDIOTS (I must be to keep posting on this kind of threads) BORED AND WAITING FOR NEW CONTENT...... BACK TO CODING AND QUEST DESIGN::::

[GramercyRiff]

Fixed? or Nerf the GAME in favor of the most overpowered Fighter class out there. (And I enjoy my Barbarian...it´s just that I accept the price of my Cyclone-Like death dealing.

Bah, the Barbarian isn't overpowered. Sure it deals more damage than other classes, but that doesn't make it overpowered. That makes it do what it's supposed to do, deal the most damage. So yeah, "nerf the game".

[Gordo]

I have tried numerous times to use a potion with a funnel on someone else. I have targeted them with my cursor and in my window to no avail. How do you actually use a potion on someone else?

[bobbryan2]

[COLOR="Orange"]Your trying to make us think that the Devs made a mistake now? Is that your sly attempt at getting things reversed in your petty favor?
YOU find Logic, deductive reasoning and accurate observations fascinating? I´ve seen your responses to these and ...pls don´t BS us...

Of course the devs made a mistake. It's so incredibly obviously a bug that I'm astonished you could argue otherwise.

You're simply finding justification for a bug, plain and simple. Which is fine... but it's besides the point.