Preliminary Build - UMD, High AC, Tempest Ranger

[hydra_ex]

OK, Im done with asking about which race this should be. Ive decided on mighty half-pets... err... Haflings... Anyways, my original intention was to take one lvl of fighter for bonus feats, but then monk came out. At first level, they get dodge, which I have to take anyways. Monk seems to have some advantages over fighter, due to ac boost, and cool looking unarmed combat =P So, I was thinking 9 rogue, 1 monk, 6 ranger.

Starting Stats:
Str 14
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 8
Cha 12
Wis 12

Leveling Guide:
1: Rogue: Dodge
2: Ranger
3: Ranger: TWF*, Weapon Finnese
4: Rogue
5: Rogue
6: Monk: Mobility*, Skill Focus UMD or Oversized TWF
7: Ranger
8: Ranger
9: Ranger: Spring Attack
10: Ranger: ITWF*
11: Rouge
12: Rouge: IC Pierce
13: Rouge
14: Rouge
15: Rouge: GTWF
16: Rouge:

*Bonus Feat

This way I get a good UMD, twf and pre-reqs for tempest.

[Impaqt]

You cant take IC at level 9 on this build. You'll only have a BAB of 7 at that point due to Rogue and Monk Level. Both 3/4 BAB classes.

Greater TWF is also Level 11 Ranger. Not 12

[hydra_ex]

Forgot about improved crit's BaB req, and I must have miscounted my ranger lvls

[Ikuryo]

It would be interesting if you could sneak another level of monk in there. You would get evasion much earlier and one of the monk feats as a bonus, toughness comes to mind but there are several good feats available.

[hydra_ex]

I suppose that would work, and I won't lose any BaB! Would only get it at lvl 16 though instead of ranger. Tougness isn't bad, lets see what others think.

[Twerpp]

Thats a great idea for a build though. I considered something like that myself but forgot about it when I realized Ki weapons suck. You will lose your wis ac bonus iirc without them haven't been tracking the monk thing too hard though.

[hydra_ex]

Thats a great idea for a build though. I considered something like that myself but forgot about it when I realized Ki weapons suck. You will lose your wis ac bonus iirc without them haven't been tracking the monk thing too hard though.

Actually I just tested that. I was not centered and still retained my wisdom bonus to AC.

[Hasteclicky]

It's a cool concept if u can figure out a way around the alignment restrictions.

[hydra_ex]

It's a cool concept if u can figure out a way around the alignment restrictions.

Last time I checked, Monks had to be lawful, rogues can be anything, as could rangers. As long as I'm LN, or LG, I can get by just fine.
You are probably confused because of the statement in th PHB under rogue: Rogues follow opurtunities, not ideals. Though they are more likely to be caotic than good, rogues are a diverse bunch, so they may be of any alignment.

[Twerpp]

Actually I just tested that. I was not centered and still retained my wisdom bonus to AC.

Ahh nice! Then I would recommend 6 ranger 8 rogue 2 monk. or 6 ranger 9 rogue 1 monk. With a finesse build you will get a LOT more dps with sneak dice than more ranger levels would give you. Situational sneak and flanking bonuses means you will rarely miss. Also you can pop traps and locks with great skill and have an excess of skill points. I would go 1 monk 9 rogue if you preferred an extra 1d6 sneak, or 2 monk 8 rogue if you preferred the extra WIS from monk WIS I. Since your build goal is high AC I would go for the wisdom. 6 ranger levels gets you the best things possible, tempest, manyshot, itwf, rams might (and one more spell), you can afford 1 feat for the greater twf.

[hydra_ex]

Ahh nice! Then I would recommend 6 ranger 8 rogue 2 monk. or 6 ranger 9 rogue 1 monk. With a finesse build you will get a LOT more dps with sneak dice than more ranger levels would give you. Situational sneak and flanking bonuses means you will rarely miss. Also you can pop traps and locks with great skill and have an excess of skill points. I would go 1 monk 9 rogue if you preferred an extra 1d6 sneak, or 2 monk 8 rogue if you preferred the extra WIS from monk WIS I. Since your build goal is high AC I would go for the wisdom. 6 ranger levels gets you the best things possible, tempest, manyshot, itwf, rams might (and one more spell), you can afford 1 feat for the greater twf.

Yea definitely. I was hoping for a great bab though, like my current ranger (hits almost anything on a 2, max ive seen him get is almost +60 to hit buffed)

[Twerpp]

Yea definitely. I was hoping for a great bab though, like my current ranger (hits almost anything on a 2, max ive seen him get is almost +60 to hit buffed)

Also the monk stance enhancements are level 2 way of tortoise/dog/gerbil etc. One of those you may find useful.

[hydra_ex]

I just did the math also, its the same to-hit, given a dex 2 lower than the one I have now on my main. (haling cunning is great)

[hydra_ex]

Also, are animal forms active while your not centered?

[MrCow]

I would imagine so. I still retain my negative to fortitude saves when I'm uncentered from my Way of the Elegant Crane (and yes, I took it because someone had to ).

[hydra_ex]

2 Monk does not work because no amount of rearanging gets me all the feats I want. Left with 1 Monk, 7 rogue, 8 Ranger. Cow's post also helped me out, now that I know I'm uncentered, 2 Monk seems kinda pointless. Maybe at lvl 17.

[hydra_ex]

I re-did the build. I can no longer select both OTWF and Skill Focus UMD. Which one is better? I know that good rapiers are rare, but 4 umd seems to tempting...

[Tanka]

You cant take IC at level 9 on this build. You'll only have a BAB of 7 at that point due to Rogue and Monk Level. Both 3/4 BAB classes.

Greater TWF is also Level 11 Ranger. Not 12

Incorrect. Ranger is a full BAB class.

[MrCow]

Incorrect. Ranger is a full BAB class.

But monk and rogue are not. The build currently outlines at level 9 that the character would be a 7 ranger/1 monk/1 rogue. Monks and Rogues have 0 BAB at level one, thus, a total of BAB 7 for this character at level 9.

[Impaqt]

Ty Cow.... I've build a few characters in my day.. I think I know BAB progression pretty well.

SF is jsut 3, but I'd still go with it over OTWF... THe difference between a Rapier and a SS in teh offhand is minor