Threnal East Part 2 nearly Unplayable

[Zenix_Leviticus]

Formed a group this morning for some speed runs through Threnal East 1&2.

The first time we completed both parts because the Golems came to life in Part 2. We tried
three more times and the clay golems didn't come to life and coyle and hi idiots wouldn't stop
trying to attack them. Until Coyle gets to the door at the bottom, the quest won't go to the
next part where the side doors open.


Why oh why does one fix break several other things?

[Lithic]

One way around this is to let coyle aggro on a mephit, take the mephit aggro, and lead the mephit beyond the golems. Once out of golem sight, you can kill the mephit and move on.

[Zenix_Leviticus]

Nice suggestion!!

I was trying to figure out something safe enough to let him agro on..


I just wish the golems always came to life. That would fix this whole thing.

[Vengenance]

One way around this is to let coyle aggro on a mephit, take the mephit aggro, and lead the mephit beyond the golems. Once out of golem sight, you can kill the mephit and move on.

I used this same trick on Saturday when he got stuck on the Golems; it worked like a charm.

[Thailand_Dan]

Had the same thing happen to me. I could attack the clay golems with my smite club, and 0's were popping up, but he seemed to save on confirmed crit, no matter what he rolled when I hit a 20. After about 15 minutes of swinging at the motionless clay golem, I gave up. Thx for the advise to get around this one.

Isn't this one of the oldest quests in game? Has this bug always been here?

[phinius]

Reaching the first shrine at the top usually activates the golems. Rather than taking the first or second left to head to the bottom continue straight to the shrine. The golems should activate after that.

[Gordo]

This is NOT a cure all. We already tried this tactic this weekend and it failed numerous times. It is a bug and needs to be fixed. Coyle is a tool.

[Impaqt]

Had the same thing happen to me. I could attack the clay golems with my smite club, and 0's were popping up, but he seemed to save on confirmed crit, no matter what he rolled when I hit a 20. After about 15 minutes of swinging at the motionless clay golem, I gave up. Thx for the advise to get around this one.

Isn't this one of the oldest quests in game? Has this bug always been here?

All immobile/unactivated Mobs are now Completely immune to everything until they "Spawn" No More Smiting innactive Constructs.

[In_Like_Flynn]

All immobile/unactivated Mobs are now Completely immune to everything until they "Spawn" No More Smiting innactive Constructs.

Good. Less silly is better.

[moonprophet]

There is a wonderfull interrveiw on ddocast this week with a member of the turbine QA team that explains this sort of thing. Because so many features of the game are interweaved, in sometimes less than obvious ways, fixing one problem can lead to creating another. In this case, fixing the pathing issues that allowed the shroud raid to be (e-worded), caused pathing problems in other seemingly unrelated areas of the game. The most bltant example in the kundarek warder quest which was shut down. Threnal was also appearantly effected. Unfortunately, it is not possible to test every quest in the game after each change is made, and things get missed. Another example of this was the fix to prevent clerics and bards from incurring spell failure related to wearing armor when using scrolls that mirrored wizard spells. This was fixed and tested. What was nottested and caught was that the fix removed ALL armor based arcane spell failure.

So, as you can see, what might seem like (to someone that actually has no experience with the database that runs this game) a simple coding matter, is often a more complex issue than it appears on the surface. When fixes are made, many things have to be considered , such as how is this going to affect everything else in the game, and how long will it take to test, and will the player base be more cranky if we leave the bug in, or delay the release of the content another week?

[Impaqt]

Expecting EVERYTHING in the game to be tested prior to releasing a new mod is unrealistic. THe problem occurs when something that effects players in an extremely negative fasion gets pushed to the backburner of the fix list rather than getting fixed right away.

The AI really needs to be looked at long and hard.... Just running around Atraxias Haven yesterday, many wildment absolutely would NOT aggro on me. It was an exercise in futility trying to chase them down for a kill.

[HumanJHawkins]

<CUT>Another example of this was the fix to prevent clerics and bards from incurring spell failure related to wearing armor when using scrolls that mirrored wizard spells. This was fixed and tested. What was not tested and caught was that the fix removed ALL armor based arcane spell failure.

Well... This is the result of using kluges. I'm not blaming Turbine, as all companies do it... It is just too attractive for people to resist.

It is why whenever I hear someone say "If we use x, y, and z from that other hunk of code, we can save a whole day of coding time", I almost always try to talk them out of it (unless x, y, and z are really appropriate). But I usually lose that argument, and it usually comes back to bite us for twice the programming time a few months later when we have to fix it.

[crschoen]

So, as you can see, what might seem like (to someone that actually has no experience with the database that runs this game) a simple coding matter, is often a more complex issue than it appears on the surface. When fixes are made, many things have to be considered , such as how is this going to affect everything else in the game, and how long will it take to test, and will the player base be more cranky if we leave the bug in, or delay the release of the content another week?

System Integration Testing (SIT), in the context of software systems and software engineering, is a testing process that exercises a software system's coexistence with others. System integration testing takes multiple integrated systems that have passed system testing as input and tests their required interactions.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_integration_testing

[VirieSquichie]

Well... This is the result of using kluges. I'm not blaming Turbine, as all companies do it... It is just too attractive for people to resist.

It is why whenever I hear someone say "If we use x, y, and z from that other hunk of code, we can save a whole day of coding time", I almost always try to talk them out of it (unless x, y, and z are really appropriate). But I usually lose that argument, and it usually comes back to bite us for twice the programming time a few months later when we have to fix it.

Perfect example of why they call it the "Art" of reusing code. Unless done really really carefully, the results are usually closer to abstract art than anything else...could be interesting to look at, and may well provoke an emotional response, but in the grand scheme of things not practically functional whatsoever.

Good coding takes much longer up front, but in an ongoing project the future maintenance times will be so much shorter than trying to untangle spaghetti at every turn.

[DeadlyGazebo]

Formed a group this morning for some speed runs through Threnal East 1&2.

The first time we completed both parts because the Golems came to life in Part 2. We tried
three more times and the clay golems didn't come to life and coyle and hi idiots wouldn't stop
trying to attack them. Until Coyle gets to the door at the bottom, the quest won't go to the
next part where the side doors open.


Why oh why does one fix break several other things?

One fix breaks other things because things are interrelated, of course.... There's a big hunk of code that controls what your pets/allies/charms can attack. We made a number of changes in that code recently; unfortunately it did cause this unexpected issue.

That said, we are aware of the problem, and a fix is on the way (ETA unknown, but hopefully it will be in a patch soonish).

[swooshrp]

One fix breaks other things because things are interrelated, of course.... There's a big hunk of code that controls what your pets/allies/charms can attack. We made a number of changes in that code recently; unfortunately it did cause this unexpected issue.

That said, we are aware of the problem, and a fix is on the way (ETA unknown, but hopefully it will be in a patch soonish).

Gianthold Tor is having the same problem on the giant skeletons right before you enter each dragon. Though curiously it has been only the white dragon. We would just go onto the blue dragon and come back and it would work properly...

One side note, I havent tried going to a different dragon first yet other than white, so I am not sure if it's related. I believe it be related to either AE spells or charmed monsters, but this hasn't been fully tested.

Anyways, you may be able to look there for more clues on whats causing it.

Thanks.

[rimble]

Expecting EVERYTHING in the game to be tested prior to releasing a new mod is unrealistic. THe problem occurs when something that effects players in an extremely negative fasion gets pushed to the backburner of the fix list rather than getting fixed right away.

The AI really needs to be looked at long and hard.... Just running around Atraxias Haven yesterday, many wildment absolutely would NOT aggro on me. It was an exercise in futility trying to chase them down for a kill.

Yeah, mobs have definitely gotten alot more "runny" again. I like that the Sentrys are working again...had a good 'oh crud' moment in the last part of WW when the Sentry went and rang the bell to get the Ogre out...I'd gotten so used to just ignoring all that...

[Zaodon]

All immobile/unactivated Mobs are now Completely immune to everything until they "Spawn" No More Smiting innactive Constructs.

Good. Less silly is better.

Yeah, because it should be impossible for characters to destroy an object right next to them with weapons specifically designed for that item's destruction.... unless that object animates.

/sarcasm

I realize this was a balance/game play fix, but it doesn't make any sense. I can destroy it if it animates but not if its just standing there? Complete nonsense.

[ArkoHighStar]

In the desert you can see it very clearly on the three mummys that have the spell storing ring. It is very easy to test, if you want them to pop then walk over them and they will arise, want to not have them pop drop an AOE spell like firewall on top of them beforethey pop and they will stay there . Saw it with the giants as well in the TOR we killed the first round, and then they just stopped, we started to leave and all left the platform and voila they spawned again. It looks like the fix to stop pets getting hit by AOE spells prevents them from triggering the spawn script, as soon as the firewalls were gone and we had left the platform they kind of reset and so they started spwaning again

[BillBob]

It's just the instability that is starting to make the game less enjoyable. I can only imagine it getting more difficult to code when the community is gonna want more complex content that reflects the power of the player characters. I cringe when i think of the signature spell Time Stop lol Anyway, i'd love to see more time spent straightening out the code but i'm sure it's gonna take the back seat to the potential revenues generated by enticing more players through new content.

Que Sira Sira.... Kudos tho