Dear ES and DS

[Muirtach]

Of the OP? Seriously? All he said was he loves the new smites.

I think B meant the tone of happiness when he isn't. S0meone get that guy a drink so he can calm down a bit

[Borror0]

Of the OP? Seriously? All he said was he loves the new smites.

Not to me, sounded more like "everything is fine, stop complaining" post. Judging by his post history, it does seem accurate to me.

Saying "I love you" is a ctegoric comment saying that they are awesome, there's no nuance, nothing. It's just that good. I would have made an "I love you" post if I was a barbarian after Module 3.3, or a ranger after Module 6. Not a paladin after Module 7, that's for sure.

Then again, it's my interpretation... and maybe I'm grumpy, I didn't sleep tonight... worked on the wiki instead.

[Yaga_Nub]

Not to me, sounded more like "everything is fine, stop complaining" post. Judging by his post history, it does seem accurate to me.

Saying "I love you" is a ctegoric comment saying that they are awesome, there's no nuance, nothing. It's just that good. I would have made an "I love you" post if I was a barbarian after Module 3.3, or a ranger after Module 6. Not a paladin after Module 7, that's for sure.

Then again, it's my interpretation... and maybe I'm grumpy, I didn't sleep tonight... worked on the wiki instead.

B, you can't use past posts to decide the tone of this post. That's prejudicial. I read the post as he likes the new enhancements. I don't see at all an attitude of everything is great, just that these enhancements are great to him.

[Accelerando]

Accelerando

Would you mind positing the basics of your build? I've been wanting to roll a pure pally for sometime but have been holding off because of all the negative comments towards the Paladin class. Since it sounds like you have a fun and functional build, I would like see it as a starting point for my build. Much appreciated.

bah i wish dude but we don't post our builds.

[Accelerando]

B, you can't use past posts to decide the tone of this post. That's prejudicial. I read the post as he likes the new enhancements. I don't see at all an attitude of everything is great, just that these enhancements are great to him.

Actually there is an attitude lol.
These enh are more than worthy to any gamer worth a frack.

[Accelerando]

I think B meant the tone of happiness when he isn't. S0meone get that guy a drink so he can calm down a bit

Seriously.... drinks are super expensive in Singapore.

[Muirtach]

Seriously.... drinks are super expensive in Singapore.

Time to start brewing

[Accelerando]

Time to start brewing

Somebody wants me to get caned! lol

[Borror0]

bah i wish dude but we don't post our builds.

PM it?

[Mhykke]

I love lamp.

[Borror0]

I love PINK.

[Yaga_Nub]

Actually there is an attitude lol.
These enh are more than worthy to any gamer worth a frack.

Then it needs to be brought out more. Unless it was supposed to be a light, airy, gay, happy attitude because that's all it read like.

[Yaga_Nub]

I love PINK.

Don't try to bring Rowan into this one. You got yourself into this mess and she can't help you now.

[Yaga_Nub]

I love lamp.

Do you really love the lamp, or are you just saying it because you saw it?

[axebender]

ok i tried out these new enhancements on my new pally...pally 12 fighter 4..i went two weapon on this toon...i shelved my pure pally to dust him off on a later date. i both like this new enhacement and hate it..its great on my two weapon pally cause if i set my smite off at the right time i get a two for one special and i see a big difference in my dps...but if i was sword and board like my pure pally this extra damage doesnt cut it at all

[Illuminati]

These new abilities made me shelf my pally =(

They don't work well with auto-attack (in fact, none of the clickies attacks do) and vs. 'Good' only stinks for a game filled with elementals, nuetral mobs and inanimate objects.

With greensteel axes in the game I feel my pally will be better, but still not fun to play over a ranger or a barb.

Paladins need something else, PrC's please. I thought these new abilities would be nice, but other than the +5 AC I give a party (and btw, no Paladin I know has the +4 resistance up ever) I feel gimptastic.

Oh, and don't start with the 'don't put your gimp Pally on me stuff'. My Pally is very well equipped (Pure Dwarf, 30,22, 26, 8, 20, 20) but is just blah to play outside of PvP.

Borrow is right on this one, pure Paladins need something bad.

[DoctorWhofan]

Borror0

Sorry man, my gimped Pally now can do damage!!! Yeah! Why? I have a heck of alot of Toughness feats. And CON. So us who made survivialist Pallys are reaping the benefits!! And my level 12 not-so-gimped pally? He is going to be evil EVIL!!!

THanks Turbine


I do not want my Pally to be just another tank. Each tank class brings something to the table, and, unless you are clever about building them, something that is their weak point. We are talking pure classes here, not mixed. Barbararians kill faster, but get hurt easier. Fighters exchange a little of their DPS for some AC. Rangers can wield massive damage TWFing, but have no AC. Pally, do not have the tanking DPS as the other classes, on average. However, they have the saves, the abilities to be self sustaining in a fight and survive when many ofthe other tanks have dropped. THat is their gift. They will never be in thesame league with the barbs and fighters, unless you strip them of everything that makes them a Pally, up to and including the class itself.

Many of us understand that, and comperhened that. Some choose DPS over spell power, others choose to make the classic Paladin, still others focus on the aura, survival aspect of the pally. To compare them with fighters in the DPS department is unfair. THey are never gonna be that. But it doesn't make them a weak tank, it makes them a different kind of tank, like rangers.

If you think of them like that, you will realise that they are not gimped or hurting, but they have alot of things to offer a group: auras, heals, buffing, intimatanks, and/or healing. THAT's what makes them valuable. No mana wasted on resistances or deathward. Emergancy heals. Raise the cleric. Get the aggro off the rogue so he can make a sneak attack, everybody has pluses to concetration, fear, etc. Yes other classes can do this, but it is the fact that there is another person who can in the party gives a party alot of options.

Gotta look beyond the numbers and look at the class itself. THe glass is half full, realise that.

[Borror0]

Fighters exchange a little of their DPS for some AC.

Armor class is a build option, not a class feature.

Rangers can wield massive damage TWFing, but have no AC.

False, rangers can get a very nice Amor class while TwFing!

Pally, do not have the tanking DPS as the other classes, on average. However, they have the saves, the abilities to be self sustaining in a fight and survive when many ofthe other tanks have dropped.

If you mean AC, AC is.. not a class feature. AC needs... gear, which new players cannot have.

As for saves... the problem is that you can multiclass in this game. Thier high saves is nothing unique. Rangers can reach high reflexes and barbarians can reach high will saves. Then, you've got all the classes who can multiclass with paladins. Is it something they got, of course! But it's not something that we can say make them Much More powerful in comparison to others.

To compare them with fighters in the DPS department is unfair.

Actually, it is. Both fighters and paladins are weak right now. Every single class got more than DPS since Module 3.3, but them:

• Barbarians: Critical Rage I & II, Power Attack I, II & III
• Bards: Improved Inspire Courage, Warchanter
• Clerics: SP upgrade from Update 4.2 & Metamagic change in Module 5.0
• Fighters: Nothing at all, nerf to Armor Class
• Paladins: Divine Favor was changed from +4 to +3 to follow Pen and Paper rules.
• Rangers: 4th Favored Enemy, Favored Damage III, Ram's Might, Tempest I
• Rogues: More Sneak Attacks and improvement to Sneak Attack Training
• Sorcerers: SP upgrade from Update 4.2 & Metamagic change in Module 5.0
• Wizards: SP upgrade from Update 4.2 & Metamagic change in Module 5.0

Nothing for both, so yes, it is fair to compare weak to weak.

But it doesn't make them a weak tank, it makes them a different kind of tank, like rangers.

You are weak when the total of your strengths are lesser than others.

They have alot of things to offer a group.

That's not it. I see all of that.

The problem is, their support capacity is not strong enough, it their defensive capacity is too low to offset their low DPS and their DPS is under a acceptable treshold.

PS: Don't use the word gimp in a paladin discussion, it has the conotation of uselessness which may start pointless fights...

[Accelerando]

I love lamp.

Great now you and your boyfriend are trolling me.
I shall beat you back with the power of TOTALLY AWESOME!



God you wish you never gave me this link.

*wow looks like img posting has been nerfed.....

[Inspire]

PS: Don't use the word gimp in a paladin discussion, it has the conotation of uselessness which may start pointless fights...

My Paladin Is A Gimp! Whoot!

But Seriously... Hes Awesome And A Blast To Play.

Yet, I Dont Relinquish My First Statement