Minority opinion

[Luthen]

Thanks for "fixing" the Shroud part 2. Always a pleasure to run a raid we've run a hundred times and have to waste resources because you think it's to trivial for us now. I have NO issue with the 4 bosses not getting stuck in their respective corners. What I do take issue with is if you happen to pull the devil on your run along with the Fire Ele you're not hosed but you certainly have to work harder on that part then killing the Pit Fiend himself.

Fix the stupid devil so his aggro will actually remain with the person/people who are damaging him instead of randomly teleporting all over the zone. Also lets consider tuning down the Fire Ele's speed from Warp 10 down to about Warp 5 maby. We had all 4 down and the Fire Ele was back in the middle before the caster could get off enough damage to kill the crystals. Im serious. He moved so fast it was almost like he teleported.

[Gornn]

I will say I've only done two runs since Mod 7 and part 2 was definitely harder than either 4 or 5.

Edit: Not complaining, FYI.

Just pointing out part 2 is a real challenge, now.

[Gunga]

I think Pt 2 is notably tougher because we've never completed it the way it was originally intended. The Shroud is a lot more fun now.

[Luthen]

Normally I would let this thread slide, but come on Luthen, you and the rest of DWAT preach your tactics and i've run with you enough to figure that running to the devs would be your LAST resort.

I agree that the devil is evil, and his porting abilities should cease to exist, but the changes have been active for about 2 days, and your "tactics" in game have already resorted you to calling out for change.

Now in yor favor, I haven't been in the shroud since the Mod yet. (No access due to moving) But I would figure your in game skills would prevail over anything the devs throw at you. Or am I wrong to assume?

"Resorting"? You make it sound like expressing my opinion, which I do often and freely, is a bad thing. DWAT has no issue with completing the Shroud and have always done so WITHOUT resorting to lame "tactics" others have used. However that doesn't mean I am not permitted to state very clearly that the behavior of two of the named bosses in part 2 goes beyond what, IMHO, was intended. Your reply has a really combative tone to it and I don't appreciate it. I have been expressing my thoughts on things I think have been done wrong since BETA. Because you don't think enough time has elapsed between the release and my observations (which are not mine, or DWATs, alone) I shouldn't post something this obvious? Sorry Bunk not gonna happen. Disagree with me all you want. It won't change my opinion on the Devil and Fire Ele. Devil ports to often (1-2 times every 2 seconds) and the Fire Ele moves to fast (so fast he may as well teleport anyway).

Oh and Bunk. If you knew me and DWAT so well you wouldn't jump into an assumption so fast like that without first thinking "Hmm... maby if these guys think so there might be something to it". Not to mention you're basing all this on an assumption since you yourself have not yet been in there since the change. Try and give people the credit you profess you're already giving them and not jumping to a conclusion.

I think Pt 2 is notably tougher because we've never completed it the way it was originally intended. The Shroud is a lot more fun now.

Actually the Shroud WAS this way for awhile. You see there was a "tactic" which allowed people to bypass part 2 way back when (not discussing specifics here to avoid having the KK on my booty). During that period of time bosses didnt always get "stuck" and people, DWAT included, beat the Shroud regularly by killing all 4 bosses and breaking the crystal before any returned to the center. My issue is not the bosses roaming loose right away. I am fine with adjusting tactics. However I feel the Dev team had a serious lapse in judgement when they designd the behavior for the Devil and the speed of the Fire Ele. At one point we had the Fire Ele dead (as the final of the 4 bosses) and he was in the SW corner. He ran from the SW corner to the center and respawned before a caster could get off two spells on the crystal.

STILL think I'm wrong about thinking that the Fire Ele moves to fast?

[Aranticus]

just have a nuker at the crystal to standy...... think out of the box, you need not always have everyone on all the bosses..... be more flexible and work around the issue

seem like you dun preach whats in your sig

[GlassCannon]

just have a nuker at the crystal to standy...... think out of the box, you need not always have everyone on all the bosses..... be more flexible and work around the issue

seem like you dun preach whats in your sig

Think outside what? Try not having a Nuker. Rangers and people with throwing items have to drop the crystal. Not our problem, not our fault, just circumstance.

[Luthen]

just have a nuker at the crystal to standy...... think out of the box, you need not always have everyone on all the bosses..... be more flexible and work around the issue

seem like you dun preach whats in your sig

We had one there. Anymore questions? As I said the FE moved from SW corner to the middle before a caster got off a 2nd spell. If that's as intended then something is wrong. Or do you disagree?

[Grond]

just have a nuker at the crystal to standy...... think out of the box, you need not always have everyone on all the bosses..... be more flexible and work around the issue

seem like you dun preach whats in your sig

That's exactly what we did, had a caster standing by to nuke the crystal the second the fire ele dropped. Worked just fine. Been in three shroud runs since the patch, had orthon, fire, orc, gnoll the first time, devil, fire, orc, troll the second, and rock, orthon, orc, troll the third. Wasn't that hard to deal with them.

[Drider]

My only prob is the Fire Elemental's speed. It's just a tad on the rediculous side.

[sirgog]

My only prob is the Fire Elemental's speed. It's just a tad on the rediculous side.

Nimrisr too. That kitty can MOVE.


I like the change (although I agree, part 2 is now harder than 4 or 5 if you get a bad pull i.e. any two or three of Nimrisr, Anur-Shub and Sagreta). I'd like it more if those three were toned down slightly - drop Anur-Shub's ghost movement speed and also Nimrisr's to be the same as a non-hasted character with 20% striders. Then, to keep some of the feel of the current Sagreta encounter but remove the sillyness of it, make Sagreta able to aggro to and teleport to anyone he has line of sight to, rather than anyone in the whole Shroud. (Currently he can kill someone that is crafting or AFK in Part 1)

[Bunker]

"Resorting"? You make it sound like expressing my opinion, which I do often and freely, is a bad thing. DWAT has no issue with completing the Shroud and have always done so WITHOUT resorting to lame "tactics" others have used. However that doesn't mean I am not permitted to state very clearly that the behavior of two of the named bosses in part 2 goes beyond what, IMHO, was intended. Your reply has a really combative tone to it and I don't appreciate it. I elapsed between the release and my observations (which are not mine, or DWATs, alone) I shouldn't post something this obvious? Sorry Bunk not gonna happen. Disagree with me all you want. It won't change my opinion on the Devil and Fire Ele. Devil ports to often (1-2 times every 2 seconds) and the Fire Ele moves to fast (so fast he may as well teleport anyway).

Well the sarcastic tones of your first message to describe the disappointment of part 2 of the shroud just left me shaking my head. There have been 100s of posts since Mod 7 went live of ppl complaining about the changes. I wouldn't have expected you to post in that way, but I guess change can get to everyone. No combative tone was intended. So many posts are requesting the Devs change this or that, even i have requested certain adjustments be made, but as far as Mob AI, players have always found a way to adjust and own the situation in any quest post changes.

[Milolyen]

"Resorting"? You make it sound like expressing my opinion, which I do often and freely, is a bad thing. DWAT has no issue with completing the Shroud and have always done so WITHOUT resorting to lame "tactics" others have used. However that doesn't mean I am not permitted to state very clearly that the behavior of two of the named bosses in part 2 goes beyond what, IMHO, was intended.

The fire elemental has always moved that fast and the devil has always teleported like that. If you didn't resort to useing lame "tactics" then you would have already known about their movements and already have figured out ways around it. So why are you posting about this now instead of months ago when it has always been this way?

Milolyen

[Impaqt]

Fire, Devil, Kobold, Gnoll last night.....

Wow.... Thats one rough lineup....

The kobold is a world class sprinter as well.....

With the NPC in prt 3 unable to repair right now we coulnt go into prt 4

Would love to see thier speed Toned down just a bit.

[Yshkabibble]

I do agree that some of the mobs are pretty darn quick to get back to the center. That said, I think the changes made in the shroud part 2 were mostly for the good. I have a feeling that in another week once everyone irons out the best strategy it will be smooth again.

[Luthen]

The fire elemental has always moved that fast and the devil has always teleported like that. If you didn't resort to useing lame "tactics" then you would have already known about their movements and already have figured out ways around it. So why are you posting about this now instead of months ago when it has always been this way?

Milolyen

No... the FE did not move THIS fast originally. And using the trees was not a lame tactic. It was the way it was intended to work at that time and this was a widely used tactic. Though using the South portal area also worked if we fealt so inclined. People need to stop assuming that everyone else is an idiot.

[bobbryan2]

The fire elemental has always moved that fast and the devil has always teleported like that. If you didn't resort to useing lame "tactics" then you would have already known about their movements and already have figured out ways around it. So why are you posting about this now instead of months ago when it has always been this way?

Milolyen

Uh... I knew they all moved like that before hand. But it wasn't an issue, because they stuck in their corners.

I'm not sure what your argument is.

It wasn't an issue then so it must not be an issue now that you have to actually deal with it?

Yeah... Fire Ele's speed was always completely ridiculous.

[GlassCannon]

I will say I've only done two runs since Mod 7 and part 2 was definitely harder than either 4 or 5.

Edit: Not complaining, FYI.

Just pointing out part 2 is a real challenge, now.

An unreasonable challenge at that. We simply reset the instance if we get the Devil now.

[Bunker]

Thanks for "fixing" the Shroud part 2. Always a pleasure to run a raid we've run a hundred times and have to waste resources because you think it's to trivial for us now. I have NO issue with the 4 bosses not getting stuck in their respective corners. What I do take issue with is if you happen to pull the devil on your run along with the Fire Ele you're not hosed but you certainly have to work harder on that part then killing the Pit Fiend himself.

Fix the stupid devil so his aggro will actually remain with the person/people who are damaging him instead of randomly teleporting all over the zone. Also lets consider tuning down the Fire Ele's speed from Warp 10 down to about Warp 5 maby. We had all 4 down and the Fire Ele was back in the middle before the caster could get off enough damage to kill the crystals. Im serious. He moved so fast it was almost like he teleported.

Normally I would let this thread slide, but come on Luthen, you and the rest of DWAT preach your tactics and i've run with you enough to figure that running to the devs would be your LAST resort.

I agree that the devil is evil, and his porting abilities should cease to exist, but the changes have been active for about 2 days, and your "tactics" in game have already resorted you to calling out for change.

Now in yor favor, I haven't been in the shroud since the Mod yet. (No access due to moving) But I would figure your in game skills would prevail over anything the devs throw at you. Or am I wrong to assume?

[samagee]

So from what I am hearing, killing the faster bosses last is the way to go.

[Mhykke]

So from what I am hearing, killing the faster bosses last is the way to go.

Yep, you def. want to kill the bosses around the same time, but wait to drop the ele and the cat until the other 2 are down. Cat and ele are quick. The cat barely touches the ground, he's like a rocket. Take the cat NW, but then when almost dead just take him south of there, into the little dead end slightly south and east of the NW corner. Increases the distance the cat has to travel. Oh, and you'll definitely want to camp someone at the crystal before taking all the mobs down.


We had the kobold, gnoll, fire ele, and devil last night in a random group (although everyone knew each other.) It's hectic, and fun. Although that was w/ a pretty skilled group. I've also seen the mobs killed 5 or 6 times in a complete random pug, b/c the timing was too fast.

They might want to knock the cat and ele's speed down a tad.....it's not terrible if they don't though.