Looking for direction for a monk

[sephiroth1084]

HELP!

I have NO CLUE what direction to go with a monk. I don't know what feats will really pay off, what starting stat-array is best, what style to go for...nada.

Also, how do finishing moves work? Is it an active ability you click, or does it naturally occur? If it must be clicked, is there a particular timing to it, or may it be used whenever? Does it cost Ki?

Has anyone else noticed that the Ki meter is very hard to read with the white on yellow scheme?

I had been thinking about a Dex-based halfling monk, but not really sure where I'd go with that.

[RazorrX]

HELP!

I have NO CLUE what direction to go with a monk. I don't know what feats will really pay off, what starting stat-array is best, what style to go for...nada.

Also, how do finishing moves work? Is it an active ability you click, or does it naturally occur? If it must be clicked, is there a particular timing to it, or may it be used whenever? Does it cost Ki?

Has anyone else noticed that the Ki meter is very hard to read with the white on yellow scheme?

I had been thinking about a Dex-based halfling monk, but not really sure where I'd go with that.

Feats depend on what you want to do. Stunning Fist is good at later levels, but not so good at the beginning as your DC is too low. Toughness, dodge, spring attack, etc. are all handy. I saw some dwarves with Power Attack and Cleave, also good.

Finishing moves - when you have done a elemental attack 3 times in a row you will glow. The icon of the Kung Fu Salute on your toolbar (closed fist in open palm) will change to match the elemental attack, IF you have the Ki you can launch the attack. 5 pts per elemental attack and 15 for finishing = 30 ki needed total. (edit I think 10 for finishing, and the fists of light and darkness cost 10 vs the elemental 5)

Later (3rd level) you will pick a path. That will give you either fists of light or darkness as a strike available to you. You can mix that in with elemental attacks to generate a different finishing move OR do 3 of the light or dark fist attacks for its finishing move.

I personally went dex based Halfling Monk. But there are many different options, try some out and see how it goes.

Just remember this:

ALWAYS keep your Concentration sill maxed! It is the amount of Ki you can have stored up outside of combat (IE ready to use any time).

[sephiroth1084]

Even with a finesse-monk, what is the lowest Str I should end up with? How low a starting Con, or Wis before I'm getting unreasonable?

Thanks for the reply. Glad to know how that works. Seems like Spring Attack (just as in PnP) goes against what the monk actually wants to do (make a full-attack) and, despite his mobility options, seems a poor choice.

[RazorrX]

Even with a finesse-monk, what is the lowest Str I should end up with? How low a starting Con, or Wis before I'm getting unreasonable?

Thanks for the reply. Glad to know how that works. Seems like Spring Attack (just as in PnP) goes against what the monk actually wants to do (make a full-attack) and, despite his mobility options, seems a poor choice.

I would try to be able to get at least the first tier (min stat of 12) if not the first two (min stat of 14) in as many elemental paths as you can. Wind is Dex, Water is Wis, Fire is Str and Earth is Con.

Reasoning for this is that every elemental strike is on a different timer, so you *could* spam one every strike if you needed and had the Ki.

Wisdom affects how much total Ki you can have, Con affects Concentration (as well as HP) and so is also important. The big question is do you have 28 or 32 pts to spend?

I would go with Dex 16, Wis 16 and the balance Str and Con, but that is just me. I had pretty good luck with that approach on a 28 pt build halfling on Risia. Remember Wis is also AC AND is is used for the DC for your Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm strikes. My Monk on Risia had an unbuffed AC in the mid 30s by level 8, could be self buffed to low 40s. Wind Stance is your friend as a dex build, but it will drop your Con by 2 while it is active (but will boost Dex at the same time).

Spring attack is not the best, but then once you start pimp slapping everything to death they tend to get all antsy and running/jumping away so you have to chase them down.

[Snoggy]

I made a human monk. And so far am loving it. My only real question that I can see right now is how to allocate bonus ability points as I level up. I can't decide between STR, DEX or WIS. This isn't like with my fighter where it was easy, just keep boosting STR.

Any thoughts on the value of boosting one of those 3 over the others as you level up?

[RazorrX]

Well Monk will let you use enhancements to up Wisdom 3 times, so you could equal space between Dex and Str or go heavy one one vs the other. It depends on if you are going dex or str build really. I went Dex build on Risia and am doing it on live (just have 32 pts live vs 28 on Risia). Dex and Wis will give you awesome AC and some nice DC for special attacks. Str is always handy. The thing I find about monks so far is that they are more of a balance issue.

Right now I am thinking of by end game having around 26 in all 4 stats (including items). Think that should make me pretty balanced and should still be able to hit pretty well.

[CSFurious]

i made a halfling monk with high dex that i took to level 3, not super-impressed with the air stance

moreover, because once i start playing with haste-addicts, air starts to become irrelevant

i am going to start fresh tonight with a human monk (below is from my notes):

str 15
dex 13
con 15
int 10
wis 15
cha 9

i am going to put 2 points into str & 2 points into wis for 18 base in both, need to use a +1 tome on both to make base 16

that way i can achieve highest possible stance for both fire & water

i am going to just focus on my fists, i.e., i fight 2-handed with my warchanter & with 2-weapons on my ranger & rogue

i do not want to fight with kamas or a staff, i am going to use my fists & rely on stunning fist to hurt the enemy

human allows me to take versatility & recovery which stacks with monk recovery

additionally, human gives you more skill points, i had 8 int with my halfling monk & it really bothered me to only have 3 skill points after mainly playing my human warchanter, elf ranger, & drow rogue & bard

also, not worrying about twf with kamas & associated feats permits me to free up feats, i.e., i plan on taking toughness numerous times so that i can be a sturdy front-line combatant

probably go path of darkness for more damage

these monks are tough to build though because you really have to pay attention to wisdom IMO & then you need decent con & either higher str or dex depending on your build (appears to be tough to build a good monk that is min-maxxed)

[Snoggy]

Well Monk will let you use enhancements to up Wisdom 3 times, so you could equal space between Dex and Str or go heavy one one vs the other. It depends on if you are going dex or str build really. I went Dex build on Risia and am doing it on live (just have 32 pts live vs 28 on Risia). Dex and Wis will give you awesome AC and some nice DC for special attacks. Str is always handy. The thing I find about monks so far is that they are more of a balance issue.

Right now I am thinking of by end game having around 26 in all 4 stats (including items). Think that should make me pretty balanced and should still be able to hit pretty well.

That's exactly what I've been tossing around in my head the past two days now. Do I go balance with my "extra" points? Or do I focus on one stat? And if I do, which stat? Wis or Dex ... or Str just out of habit, heh.

It's just a new kind of way for me to think, since I've been kind of locked into really straightforward builds lately (my fighters always use STR each time they get an extra ability point, my Bard went with CHA, my cleric WIS, my twf Barb was back to STR ... there was just never any question of what I'd do with my extra points as I levelled).

Now I'm just like ... hmmmmmmm, can I split the stats? It's just such a scary thing for me. Those points you don't ever get back.

As far as my build, right now I'm leaning towards dex, but left my options open for a STR build. The stances I've liked using were Fire and Air. So you can see my dilemma in terms of which stat to favor is reflected in which stances I use.

I've been thinking my monk may not be a full bore AC focused kind of thing. I've done that twice now with two fighters. And I dunno, maybe I'm just burnt out on focusing on the same stat each time around. So I might want to try to see how I can use ki and get party bonuses and healing involved in my playstyle.

[Snoggy]

these monks are tough to build though because you really have to pay attention to wisdom IMO & then you need decent con & either higher str or dex depending on your build (appears to be tough to build a good monk that is min-maxxed)

Exactly!

[sephiroth1084]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies. I DO have access to 32 pts. so that's not a problem. I'd really like to explore the features that make the monk unique and cool (though, having skipped the Risia stuff, I'm not entirely sure what those are). I definitely know the feeling of stat-focusing, but also play a paladin for which I took all level points in Str, there was a great deal of debate on what to do with stats, and an attempt at raising multiple stats to 20-26. As such, I'm somewhat familiar with stat balancing, but that came easier for me with the paladin since in PnP I play paladins almost exclusively, and I played an intimitank up to lvl 15 for my 1750, and knew exactly what I wanted to do when I remade him as a 32 pt. character.

With the monk, I'm not really sure what I want to do. I am pretty certain that I don't want Str to be my main stat. I'm leveling a barbarian for that. However, I don't know if I want to focus more on Dex or Wis, or try to keep them even. I likely will avoid using kamas, staffs and shuriken in favor of straight up fist-to-the-punum fun.

So, stats like: Str 14, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8 (?) Wis 16, Cha 8 seems the order of the day. But what race? Should I go for the higher Dex at the expense of Str or Con with either halfling or elf? Drow seems decent here as well, as I'll get the boost to Int for the skill points. I don't really want to make this guy human for some reason, though they'd probably fit best, as they'd offer the best balance. Dwarf for the Con and a penalty to a dump stat already?

I have little idea as to what direction to go with feats. Stunning Fist eventually. One toughness somewhere, Deflect Arrows seems cool. But what else? Power Attack? Weapon Finesse almost definitely. Skill Focus: Concentration? Other combat feats?

I've got a little issue with skills as well. Concentration is an obvious must, but what to fill in around it? Is it worth taking a 10 Int for 3 skills in addition to Con, or are 2 fine? I'd be inclined to go full on martial arts and take Jump and Tumble maxed, but that leaves out Spot, Hide, Move Silently and Balance. Should I bother?

[winsom]

Skill Focus in Concentration is a good monk feat for level 1. You may want to respec out of it at some point.

I suggest not getting Toughness as a monk. You can get the animal (Turtle) enhancement for some extra HPs if you want. Monks do not get a Toughness enhancing-enhancement! I took a different animal enhancement to gain Elemental Resist 2 (later 4, 6..)

I'm enjoying Power Attack + Cleave on my monk.

This is my first character with Cleave. Its awesome to be able to hit a bunch of monsters in a wide arc. The monk animation for it is very cool too: a leaping half-spin kick. You can also activate it in mid-air to showoff your martial arts coolness. I can run around town vaulting over people and objects while spinning and kicking

Air Stance is very good at low-mid level before Haste spells become prevelant. (Air stance speed doesn't stack with Haste). My halfling started with DEX 17, WIS 16. At 3rd level with Air Stance and low level items she is already AC 26 without spell-buffs. I often use Defensive Fighting for AC 28 because she has enough DEX & Weapon Finesse to land hits. Unfortunately that turns off Power Attack.

Don't take Stunning Fist feat before 3rd level. It won't be useful because monsters die too fast and its too hard to save up 15 Ki before it drains to less than 10 Ki. I am going to wait until 6th level. When you do eventually get Stunning Fist you are probably going to want to use Fire Stance for the much-faster Ki generation. SF is 15 Ki per use. We currently can not use stunning fist while wielding weapons (other than hand-wraps). I REALLY hope that changes. In real D&D there is no such restriction.

If you plan on making a lot of use out of Wisdom-based monk abilities like Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm (instant-kill attack) then you should start with WIS 14 or 16 and also put at least 2 level up points into Wisdom to get a higher save DC. The Fire Stance lowers your WIS by 2. Water Stance raises your WIS by 2.

I started the halfling with STR 13 so it would be very possible to get to natural 16 STR, and not impossible to get 18 STR just in case the highest tier (at level 18?) Fire Stance is incredible (requires STR 18). I very much doubt I will use the Fire Stance beyond tier two though (requires STR 14) as +2d6 fire damage for 5 Ki seems good enough, so starting with STR 12 will not doom your halfling monk. Don't start lower than 12 unless you are prepared to make up for it with +3 tome or level-up points (not recommended).

[Maegin]

Any thoughts on CE and Improved Trip with off balancing strike?

Is it worth it?

...I dont think bosses can be tripped, tho.

[Naturelaughslast]

I'd suggest experimenting and taking the character up a few levels to around lvl 4-6ish. I went dex based human and was not overly impressed until I hit lvl 4 and got my hand to hand boosted up to 1d8 with and extra attack along with decent hand wraps. I know lvl 4 may seem a way for some but you really want to judge how good a build is with some +1 handwraps at like lvl 2 and not much bab? I don't think so...Make sure you got your base stats down, the enhancements and feats you can always change later. Def suggest weapon finesse at second level for any dex based monks. I also grabbed die hard, two weapon fighting, path of harmonious balance, dodge, mobility and will be getting spring attack at lvl 6. Some may say spring attack is a waste but the fact is you have to get very close to hit with fists which means you are moving alot. I notice the diff with my rangers having it and for monk i'm sure it will shine even more. I will be grabbing power attack/cleave later because the multiple hits from cleave that I have seen really pump up your ki fast. Also plan on improve crit bludgeoning. Certain stances shine more then others now and will change later as you start to put out more damage and quests get tougher. Been running in all monk groups ever since creation and have been impressed to say the least! Check out ddo wiki for exactly what you get at each level and don't multiclass more then one level or miss out on quivering palm! For a mostly monk build pure monk seems the way to go unless u just want to splash monk in another build.

[sephiroth1084]

Again, thank you for all the replies. I have much to consider now.

Winsom, in PnP you cannot make a Stunning Fist attempt with a weapon normally unless you put a special enhancement on the weapon. The only difference then between PnP and DDO in this regard is that in PnP you can choose to hit someone with your knee, foot, head, shoulder, elbow, tongue...whatever to attempt an unarmed stunning fist while holding weapons in both hands.

[RazorrX]

Any thoughts on CE and Improved Trip with off balancing strike?

Is it worth it?

...I dont think bosses can be tripped, tho.

There are good and bad things with CE, the only drawback for it is that when you do a Finishing move, it takes you out of CE, so you play stance toggle a lot.

Now it will jack your AC up nicely, but right now at 4th level I am standing at a 27 to 29 ac with no buffs and no CE. Yes it would be higher with CE, but I am not missing that right now.

Bosses don't seem to be able to be tripped. I am debating improved trip myself.

[Raiderone]

I went balanced primarily in all stats. I projected out to Level 16 (doesn't include possibles +2 Tomes)

Human: 32 Build:
Str: 16 (pts=10): Lvl4/8 Base+2/ +6 item: ..................................Projected: 24:
Dex: 14 (pts=6): Human+1/+1 Tome/ +6 item:.............................Projected: 22:
Con: 14 (pts=6): Lvl 16 Base +1/ +1 GH/ +6 item:........................Projected: 22:
Int: 10 (pts=2) added +2 tome: now 12:...................................Projected: 12 (maybe more)
Wis: 15 (pts=8): Lvl2/6/10 +3/ Lvl12 +1 Base/+6 item/ +1 Tome:.....Projected: 26:
Cha: 8 (pts=0)

I've been adding skills to Hide/Balanced/Move Silently/ Jump/ Concentrate/Tumble.

I figure to switch between stances of Fire and Water. Went way of Tortoise.
Discipline/ Skill Concentrate/ Stunning Fist/ Power Attack/ Deflect Arrow/ Dodge/ Cleave/ as of Level6...

[Maegin]

There are good and bad things with CE, the only drawback for it is that when you do a Finishing move, it takes you out of CE, so you play stance toggle a lot.

Now it will jack your AC up nicely, but right now at 4th level I am standing at a 27 to 29 ac with no buffs and no CE. Yes it would be higher with CE, but I am not missing that right now.

Bosses don't seem to be able to be tripped. I am debating improved trip myself.

Care to share your high ac breakdown?

[RazorrX]

Okay, lets see (off the top of my head):

10 Base
1 Halfling
1 Dodge
5 Dex (20 with item)
4 Wisdom (18 with Item)
1 Wind stance or Water Stance but I use Wind most times
4 Black Widow Bracers (got on first WW run. )
1 Armor Ritual on Robe
(edit)
1 Cloak of +1 Protection (WW Run #2)
1 Monk

29

Defensive Stance adds 2 for 31 but is a pain to keep toggling on over and over.

When things get nasty I use shield clicky, barkskin, etc. to jack that up to mid 30s.

He is pretty untwinked I have pulled just about everything I have on him with the exception of the Underwater Action item.

I will have to double check everything when I get home and the game comes back up, but I am pretty sure that is it though.