When can we disassemble greensteel items?

[Borror0]

That's how the game is played in life as well as DDO.

Real life is actually different from DDO.

In real life, you've got to choose between life or death. That's all. When you go and buy a product, you look at the best money/gain and you go for it. Of course yours will be outdated, but that's the way it is. It's real materials, thus to change them they have a cost.

In MMOs, you've got the choice between many games. You look at the best enjoy/money and you go for that game. In DDO, those are pixels. The only cost in those items in the time spent in creating that system, it seems to me that Turbine plans to reuse the system in future. I wouldn't be that surprised to see one of the two raids use the crafting system and the other one the previous system. Developing more techs to reduce the frustration from the playerbase and improve the overall satisfaction of your product is good, twice more if that tech is going to be widely used.

I'm not saying people will leave over this change, usually, leaving a game comes from more than one change. But they add up, so you got to try to irk the playerbase the less possible. I don't think anyone who here is still mad about the Human Versatility change, right? We forgot it. But if they mess up too much, then they have lots of players leaving. Look at SWG.

Would the Shourd weapons become obsolete with one of Module 8's raid, I'd be on your side. But this is the SAME grind.

[Yaga_Nub]

But this is the SAME grind.

Hey I'm right there with you. I don't like doing it any more than you do. Hell I ran the Shroud so much when it first came out that I didn't run it for a month and even quit logging in that much because of the grind. I still don't like running the Shroud that much because it's way to long even with the crafting changes because people still insist on crafting between each part.

I've made 6 weapons and 9 items some tier 3 some not. I WOULD LOVE to be able to disassemble items but I knew when I made them that it was a very real possibility that I wouldn't ever be able to. I made them anyway because the benefit now outweighed my potential future benefit.

Should I really be able to get ALL of those ingredients back now that I've had that benefit when others didn't? Nope. So I'll suck it up and start the grind again but since that's all I have I'll just be logging in every three days for 2 to 4 hours for the Shroud and then I'll be back to bikinis and beer.

[Borror0]

Should I really be able to get ALL of those ingredients back now that I've had that benefit when others didn't? Nope. So I'll suck it up and start the grind again but since that's all I have I'll just be logging in every three days for 2 to 4 hours for the Shroud and then I'll be back to bikinis and beer.

Yes, but shouldn't some sort of respec option be elaborated? Don't you think it'd be a good idea?

[Yaga_Nub]

Yes, but shouldn't some sort of respec option be elaborated? Don't you think it'd be a good idea?

For purely selfish reasons yes but I can't think of one valid reason to do it other than laziness and envy. Not even for a screw up. I think the way to fix a screw up should be reapplying the desired ingredients and that should only be available until you apply the next level of upgrade.

[JTsays]

Hawkin's analogy is exactly accurate.

Not really, in one hand, you got a company making profits out of selling cars. In the other, you've got a company making profits out of keeping their customers from playing the game for as many months/years as they can. Player retention is a must for once, for the other, not so much.

Turbine has made a change that will upset a bunch of players, no doubt about it. That's bad for them, as simple as that.

Hawkins armor analogy is exactly accurate.

If later on, more items are added to the list you did indeed get the short end of the stave.

Thus would be a poor decision.

My very first quote taken out of context, neato.

[gpk]

I'm not saying people will leave over this change, usually, leaving a game comes from more than one change. But they add up, so you got to try to irk the playerbase the less possible. I don't think anyone who here is still mad about the Human Versatility change, right? We forgot it. But if they mess up too much, then they have lots of players leaving. Look at SWG.

This is exactly right, and there have been quite a few big "mess ups" as of late.

It amazes me the bad analogies popping out when the correct one is "How'd you like it if mod4 dragonscale armor was upgraded in mod5 but the mod4 versions were left the same".

People are making weapons, typically the best weapon for their character, there were NO dev posts at possible future types and certainly not anything involving horns. The only recent dev posts were about kamasmonk stuff and the admission that horns were NOT supposed to be in the loot tables. Consulting a crystal ball does not count as a dev post.

[Yaga_Nub]

This is exactly right, and there have been quite a few big "mess ups" as of late.

It amazes me the bad analogies popping out when the correct one is "How'd you like it if mod4 dragonscale armor was upgraded in mod5 but the mod4 versions were left the same".

People are making weapons, typically the best weapon for their character, there were NO dev posts at possible future types and certainly not anything involving horns. The only recent dev posts were about kamasmonk stuff and the admission that horns were NOT supposed to be in the loot tables. Consulting a crystal ball does not count as a dev post.

No the correct one isn't the armor one. Rapiers were able to be made and then new rapiers given extra powers. Mine is the correct one. You have one useful item that is still useful but there is a newer "model" out now.

And I'm sorry that you can't "read between the lines" as well as others but there were plenty of hints that more was coming.

[gpk]

And I'm sorry that you can't "read between the lines" as well as others but there were plenty of hints that more was coming.

Oh please, "more crafting" means future crafting, not changes to mod6's crafting recipes out of the blue using ingredients that were there accidentally.
You mean to tell me you're happier with a shortsword in your main hand vs a rapier?

Yes there is a lot of "read between the lines" going on lately, what many keep seeing is a middle finger sticking out and up.

[Yaga_Nub]

....what many keep seeing is a middle finger sticking out and up.

Only the children.

And yes I'm happy with a SS because the character that I made a SS for doesn't have OTWF so I always knew that it would get switched to the offhand if/when rapiers were introduced.

[gpk]

And yes I'm happy with a SS because the character that I made a SS for doesn't have OTWF so I always knew that it would get switched to the offhand if/when rapiers were introduced.

So you wouldn't have preferred a rapier in mod6 then?
So you only use one, what if you made 2? What if your character wasn't TWF? Funny how only a select few seem to have access to a crystal ball, maybe you can share what it tells you for mod7 and 8.

[Yaga_Nub]

So you wouldn't have preferred a rapier in mod6 then?
So you only use one, what if you made 2? What if your character wasn't TWF? Funny how only a select few seem to have access to a crystal ball, maybe you can share what it tells you for mod7 and 8.

What do you want to know for Mod 7?

[gpk]

What do you want to know for Mod 7?

Oh anything that will stop the "well you shoulda read the devs minds" excuses...

[Shadowblizmasta]

Rapiers coming out does not make short swords useless. Same with greataxes making mauls useless. Oh noes! It does a few points less damage a swing! If the difference matters that much to you, why not just grind it out?

[Borror0]

My very first quote taken out of context, neato.

Actually, nope. I could have quoted the whole post and I would still have made my comment revelant. For the sake of accuracy, I'm going to quote your whole analogy and then proceed to explain you why what I meant. Sounds good?

Now there is a different something ’better’ than the original. You are free to get that new item, at an investment of time. This is unlike the Invaders rewards for example, where you choose only one item per character forever. If later on, more items are added to the list you did indeed get the short end of the stave.

A change that makes you get the short end is a bad thing, seems you agree with me.

It's not that they are introducing a new grind, because that's not it. If they'd be introducing a new grind, it'd be a new quest. However, what they did is to force us to redo an old grind if we want to get the best gear... which is usually the reason to do a grind. It's like if they went and changed all the previous raid loot in the game, how would you feel about that. All the loot you've worked to get... lesser than before. You'd have to run the raids once more, fun? Nope.

That's what they did.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Ignoring the difficulty of coding the return of ingredients (multi combos to give same item so which ones do you get back?)

I did not want any of the previous green steel items (want hvy pick, rapier or rpt xbow) and saved all my ingredients.

Why didn't you also save your ingredients, if you did not want the green steel item you made?



Or is it just that there are now better items and you want a free ride?

You do realise you are asking Turbine to let you spend LESS time in the game, do not think that will happen.....

I'm asking Turbine not to screw their players for playing their game. There was absolutely no indication that rapiers, scimitars, kukris, greataxes, etc. were to be added. I spent months in the Shroud to upgrade my weapons, and making them obsolete is a real slap in the face for those of us who worked hard to get our weapons early on.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Rapiers coming out does not make short swords useless. Same with greataxes making mauls useless. Oh noes! It does a few points less damage a swing! If the difference matters that much to you, why not just grind it out?

The biggest issue is not necessarily those few points of damage (though it actually adds up to quite a bit for a dwarf barb). The biggest issue is for Rogues who've made radiance II shortswords or longswords. For them, the 50% extra chance to crit is huge...

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Oh, I forgot....

/signed

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

First off, the devs might not have come right out and said there would be more weapons but you could figure that out if you took the time to read posts and put 1+1+2+1-3+1 together.

Second, so you want the powerful weapons that you could craft but you couldn't stand to wait for any confirmation of other weapons so you made all your dual-shard Tier 3 weapons and now are upset because there is a better weapon out there? Tough titty. That's like saying that because you know there are w/p rapiers that you would vendor a w/p short sword or dagger because they are less effective. BS! You'll use that SS until it falls apart and then reminisce over it until you find another one.

Finally, the devs have turned this game into a grind. Accept that. Yes, I know that it was advertised as the MMO without a grind (can we sue for false advertising ) but the game has morphed into a grind. If you want to stay in DDO it is now a fact that you will have to grind. If you don't like it there are many ways to get around it including such actions as forgoing green steel weapons and/or not playing them game.

I know that everyone compares the game to DnD and says, "Look all you need is already planned out for you in the PH, DMG, and MMs so just program EXACTLY what is in those books and we're golden." That's not the case though because those books weren't designed for real-time play and the devs are creative types that want to put their (DM) spin on things. So knowing this is still a work in progress lets just go along for the ride while it's fun for us.

Yes, we can criticize. Yes, we can complain. Yes, we should offer suggestions (even you A_D and fatherpirate) but we should not be surprised when our vision of this game isn't what the devs vision of the game is. Nor should be surprised when the devs won't hand us an easy button on a silver platter.

What annoys me is not that they are adding better loot. I know that will happen. I know there are w/p rapiers. And I know that my Radiance II Longsword is not going into the bank... I'll continue to use it for the next few months at least while I work on getting a scimitar.

What annoys me is that Turbine has effectively punished people for actually playing their game. You can't expect people to receive a crafting system and then not do anything with it because "there's a good chance that something better will come along." I fully expected Turbine to add rapiers, scimitars, etc. to the crafting system. I did not expect them to add them to the old raid's crafting... I expected to see the missing weapons in the new content, with everyone on equal footing and probably different effects.

You use the example of a w/p shortsword in your post. A better analogy would be that Turbine announce that w/p shortswords would no longer drop. Instead, all items that are generated as w/p shortswords would instead drop as w/p rapiers. Old w/p shortswords would not be upgraded to rapiers. I don't think anyone would be happy with this change, especially if they had just invested a large amount of time/plat/items in getting themselves a w/p shortsword.

[etelan]

Even if we simply got the ability to remove a bound shard of power from an item that would be sufficient. Heck, I would take the ability to remove an upgrade without getting the ingrediants back as a start.

[Elsbet]

What so many people seem to be conveniently forgetting is that Turbine ALWAYS said that the crafting that came out in mod 6 was a prototype crafting system and that improvements would be made and additional crafting ability would be added. Devs have been hinting for months that new stuff would be available because those splintered horns would become very valuable.

Now that I can make a rapier, I'll put it in one hand and put my shortsword in the other and dual wield those bad boys.