When can we disassemble greensteel items?

[etelan]

The new recipes are great, but as many others have posted a whole lot of effort went into crafting and upgrading items in mod6 and now those players have to do the very same grind all over again for these new types. I'm sure there is a mass of players who would love to be able to disassemble their obsolete greensteel items to add the upgrades to one of the new types. It's very frustrating to drop a dual tier3 upgrade item in the bank and collect again. I was expected this feature in mod7 (perhaps with horns) but it's becoming apparent it may not happen.

[bandyman1]

/signed

[Borror0]

I could explain why I agree, but I'll just /sign

[TechNoFear]

Ignoring the difficulty of coding the return of ingredients (multi combos to give same item so which ones do you get back?)

I did not want any of the previous green steel items (want hvy pick, rapier or rpt xbow) and saved all my ingredients.

Why didn't you also save your ingredients, if you did not want the green steel item you made?



Or is it just that there are now better items and you want a free ride?

You do realise you are asking Turbine to let you spend LESS time in the game, do not think that will happen.....

[bandyman1]

Ignoring the difficulty of coding the return of ingredients (multi combos to give same item so which ones do you get back?)

I did not want any of the previous green steel items (want hvy pick, rapier or rpt xbow) and saved all my ingredients.

Why didn't you also save your ingredients, if you did not want the green steel item you made?



Or is it just that there are now better items and you want a free ride?

You do realise you are asking Turbine to let you spend LESS time in the game, do not think that will happen.....

Oh....IDK. Maybe because we had no reason to believe that they'd EVER be released untill we'd already made them?

Not to mention the fact that those of us willing to do so are the EXACT reason that you have a nice little list showing you exactly what to combine with what to get the result you want.

Maybe just a little love for those whose labor provided your free ride.

PS; Don't really give a rat's ass what you think.

[maddmatt70]

The server competition makes me feel like a lab rat. There is no counter on tokens you hand in, when there should be - for instance server x is 800 reaver completion tokens away from having satisfied the reaver side of the stipulations. Instead there is some sort of vague we will let you know perhaps on Friday how close you are to the other servers. This is the old horse racing plastic track game.

The greensteel weapon options without deconstruction is just more grind. They had planned this before last mod right down to the never having said there would be any new greensteels last mod- the reason is just to encourage more grinding at the expensive of new content. When am I truly going to get an opportunity to use these new weapons I made last mod much less the weapons they want me to make this mod? There is no high level content so what is the reason that I am clamorouing to make these new shiny weapons to use them on quests where old weapons have been more then sufficient. Beats the heck out of me.

[Snoggy]

Oh....IDK. Maybe because we had no reason to believe that they'd EVER be released untill we'd already made them?

Not to mention the fact that those of us willing to do so are the EXACT reason that you have a nice little list showing you exactly what to combine with what to get the result you want.

Maybe just a little love for those whose labor provided your free ride.

PS; Don't really give a rat's ass what you think.

bandyman brings up a really good point in rebuttle to technofear. Calling it a free ride, like technofear did in the earlier post does sort of leave a lot of room for rankle among those people who did all the groundwork discovering all of these recipes.

Like a certain poster on these forums whom I almost never ever ever agree with, but who was one of the first people to make a greensteel throwing hammer. I really don't see how allowing people to disassemble some of their greensteel items would be that big a deal. Especially when I think of players, like Angelus, who made a throwing hammer back when no one knew what combines would net what result.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It's just ridiculous to all of a sudden change things drastically and not allow for deconstruction of older weapon types.

Come on guys, you knew they were gonna and more later or you weren't paying attention. I mean I wouldn't argue against deconstruction as a grind reducer and even more importantly, to deal with boo boos, but crying about them adding more stuff is not a good reason.

Ignoring the difficulty of coding the return of ingredients (multi combos to give same item so which ones do you get back?)

A random one of the two possibilities would probably work.

I did not want any of the previous green steel items (want hvy pick, rapier or rpt xbow) and saved all my ingredients.

Why didn't you also save your ingredients, if you did not want the green steel item you made?

Or is it just that there are now better items and you want a free ride?.

Yup, exactly Techno

[Pyromaniac]

/agree with OP and it should be a patch not 'next mod' in a year

[Angelus_dead]

Come on guys, you knew they were gonna and more later or you weren't paying attention.

That is simply false. What makes you say something like that?

How did ANYONE "know" they would add axes and rapiers? And if someone did mysteriously have that "knowledge", why were they so evil as to not share it with other players?

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Ignoring the difficulty of coding the return of ingredients (multi combos to give same item so which ones do you get back?)

I did not want any of the previous green steel items (want hvy pick, rapier or rpt xbow) and saved all my ingredients.

Why didn't you also save your ingredients, if you did not want the green steel item you made?



Or is it just that there are now better items and you want a free ride?

You do realise you are asking Turbine to let you spend LESS time in the game, do not think that will happen.....

I'm asking Turbine not to screw their players for playing their game. There was absolutely no indication that rapiers, scimitars, kukris, greataxes, etc. were to be added. I spent months in the Shroud to upgrade my weapons, and making them obsolete is a real slap in the face for those of us who worked hard to get our weapons early on.

[The_Ick]

Ignoring the difficulty of coding the return of ingredients (multi combos to give same item so which ones do you get back?)

I did not want any of the previous green steel items (want hvy pick, rapier or rpt xbow) and saved all my ingredients.

Why didn't you also save your ingredients, if you did not want the green steel item you made?



Or is it just that there are now better items and you want a free ride?

You do realise you are asking Turbine to let you spend LESS time in the game, do not think that will happen.....

It's funny how perspectives can vary. If you asked me, I would say that people who saved their ingredients are the ones getting the free ride. They are using the documentation and web sites that where created by the people that experimented and spent their ingredients.

So the "savers" get all the benefits, without any of the work. Meanwhile the people who did the work get shafted. 2 sides to every story I suppose…

[Yaga_Nub]

It's funny how perspectives can vary. If you asked me, I would say that people who saved their ingredients are the ones getting the free ride. They are using the documentation and web sites that where created by the people that experimented and spent their ingredients.

So the "savers" get all the benefits, without any of the work. Meanwhile the people who did the work get shafted. 2 sides to every story I suppose…

So how much work on computer design and software engineering have you done? Those early designers and engineers are really getting the shaft and you're getting all the benefit. You should stop using your computer so they get just a little less shaft.

[tenga]

i know i'm running way late on this reply, but...

I did not want any of the previous green steel items (want hvy pick, rapier or rpt xbow) and saved all my ingredients.

Why didn't you also save your ingredients, if you did not want the green steel item you made?



Or is it just that there are now better items and you want a free ride?

how is it a free ride of they did the exact same grind for the same exact ingredients? are you implying you worked harder for your ingredients?

[HumanJHawkins]

I'm sure there is a mass of players who would love to be able to disassemble their obsolete greensteel items to add the upgrades to one of the new types.

Dude, you already can. The only problem is that they are not obsolete yet... As soon as they are, all you do is put them on an alter and click... All your ingredients come back.

Seriously though, there is a very good reason why they will not do this. It is the same reason people who already ate 6 +1 tomes didn't get anything great from their cake. I think a dev put it something like this (paraphrased) "Figuring out what extra thing to give a player who already ate a tome for every stat, is not at the top of my priorities."

Likewise, figuring out how to let someone trade in their 2 ultra uber kopeshes that average 6d6 (or more) of extra damage on every swing, so they can have 7d6 per swing instead, is not at the top of any dev's list.

One of the annoying arguments people keep making is that they have earned the right to do this... Well, what you earned was countless hours of fun. And, unless you are an idiot who likes to pay a monthly fee to endure non-fun things, you have already been paid in full. If you are an idiot, trading in your weapon is not going to help you. So there is really nothing Turbine can or should do.

[Borror0]

Seriously though, there is a very good reason why they will not do this. It is the same reason people who already ate 6 +1 tomes didn't get anything great from their cake. I think a dev put it something like this (paraphrased) "Figuring out what extra thing to give a player who already ate a tome for every stat, is not at the top of my priorities."

Wrong comparison. +1 tomes versus the cake, it shortens the gap between those with a lot of gear and those who got less. That's a good thing for the game and a nice move from them. I will agree with Turbine on that one, if you didn't get any use out of that cake.. well you didn't really need it, right?

However, the Shroud case is totally different:

• The Shroud is a grind.
• This updates puts those who waited better than those who went ahead.

It's not healthy for the game, it just annoys people out, period.

[Angelus_dead]

[*]This updates puts those who waited better than those who went ahead.

That's the crucial point. Playing a game is supposed to be fun, and fun mean immediate gratification, or at least swift and anticipated gratification.

Holding onto large ingredients "because maybe they can be used for something better later" is less fun than getting something useful now. In fact, it's anti-fun. It's bad game design to punish people who spent their ingredients early, and now Turbine is setting a bad precedent that future situations similar to raid crafting may have "trap" choices.

And a rather different reason why this was a bad move: This is Module 7, and it has two new high-end raids. But these new green steel weapons all come from Module 6 content. Improving the loot of the old module is not what a new module is supposed to do. The better way to add new loot rewards to the game world is to attach them to whole new quests, not to old quests that players may already be exhausted of.

[Yaga_Nub]

That's the crucial point. Playing a game is supposed to be fun, and fun mean immediate gratification, or at least swift and anticipated gratification.

Holding onto large ingredients "because maybe they can be used for something better later" is less fun than getting something useful now. In fact, it's anti-fun. It's bad game design to punish people who spent their ingredients early, and now Turbine is setting a bad precedent that future situations similar to raid crafting may have "trap" choices.

And a rather different reason why this was a bad move: This is Module 7, and it has two new high-end raids. But these new green steel weapons all come from Module 6 content. Improving the loot of the old module is not what a new module is supposed to do. The better way to add new loot rewards to the game world is to attach them to whole new quests, not to old quests that players may already be exhausted of.

No fun does not mean immediate gratification or even swift and anticipated gratification.

Everyone's personal definition of fun is different and every game is different. Some games do have fairly quick gratification and some games take months (maybe even years?) to complete.

YOU want immediate gratification. Well you can want in one hand and **** in the other and guess which will be filled first. Obviously for someone full of **** that an easy answer but you get my point.

Turbine didn't "punish" those of us that made items before this Mod. They also didn't "reward" those that have waited to use their ingredients. As always, they just gave us options and you and everyone else made decisions based on those options. And before you get into one of your usual huffs, YES, not having every possible option known still presents you with options that you must think about and account for in your final decisions.

[Yaga_Nub]

Wrong comparison. +1 tomes versus the cake, it shortens the gap between those with a lot of gear and those who got less. That's a good thing for the game and a nice move from them. I will agree with Turbine on that one, if you didn't get any use out of that cake.. well you didn't really need it, right?

However, the Shroud case is totally different:

• The Shroud is a grind.
  
• This updates puts those who waited better than those who went ahead.

It's healthy for the game, it just annoys people out, period.

Highlighted something and fixed your last sentence.

That's progress bud and that's how it should be. All you suckers that bought 720p 40 inch plasmas when you knew that 1080p 50 inch plasmas were going to be the same price in 6 months can cry all you want. Dummies that bought the iPhone knowing (through several leaked rumors) that there would be a newer model in a year with better internet capabilities are just that. Dumb. That's IF you want Apple to give you a new phone because you were an early adopter. Those that understand what early adoption is just suck up the cost of a new one and sell their old one or let it sit in a closet somewhere.

As an early adopter, you got access to some cool stuff and were able to brag that you have the latest and greatest item/weapon/etc. out right now. When it goes out of style/becomes obsolete/etc. you, as an early adopter, get nothing back because you already got your benefit. This is why many people waited and they are now being given a benefit for waiting. That's how the game is played in life as well as DDO.

[Borror0]

That's how the game is played in life as well as DDO.

Real life is actually different from DDO.

In real life, you've got to choose between life or death. That's all. When you go and buy a product, you look at the best money/gain and you go for it. Of course yours will be outdated, but that's the way it is. It's real materials, thus to change them they have a cost.

In MMOs, you've got the choice between many games. You look at the best enjoy/money and you go for that game. In DDO, those are pixels. The only cost in those items in the time spent in creating that system, it seems to me that Turbine plans to reuse the system in future. I wouldn't be that surprised to see one of the two raids use the crafting system and the other one the previous system. Developing more techs to reduce the frustration from the playerbase and improve the overall satisfaction of your product is good, twice more if that tech is going to be widely used.

I'm not saying people will leave over this change, usually, leaving a game comes from more than one change. But they add up, so you got to try to irk the playerbase the less possible. I don't think anyone who here is still mad about the Human Versatility change, right? We forgot it. But if they mess up too much, then they have lots of players leaving. Look at SWG.

Would the Shourd weapons become obsolete with one of Module 8's raid, I'd be on your side. But this is the SAME grind.