Healbot Branching Out

[Wan6Tan6]

With my Cleric, I want to use some of the wands of either Bard or Sorcerer. I want to use more different kinds of buffs. I know I must take a level of one of the other for this, but which one? I'm sitting comfortable with wis/cha 18 without items, but which splash class is better for this. Thanks for any responses.

[Blazer]

Splashing the sorc level would let you use any arcane wand. I'm not sure what kinds of buffs you will get for one level of either class honestly (clarification: I know what buffs you'll get, my point is they won't be very useful or long-lasting). Any sorc spells you get can only be cast at lvl 1, ditto for bard spells. You'll get a couple of songs for the bard level, but they would be immediately trumped by any real bard in the party.

What wands and buffs were you specifically looking to use?

[Arianrhod]

I don't think there are any wands bards get that wouldn't be covered by cleric/sorc. Sorcs, of course, get lots of wands bards don't. Taking bard early would have given you the option to invest a lot into UMD, but taking it late doesn't give you a whole lot. Sorc for wands + spellpoints seems like a better choice.

[Wan6Tan6]

Easily solved then. I've seen a few high level clerics with a level of sorcerer but not bard. Sorcerer it is.

Besides, you're not really missing anything by being all cleric spellwise, since you only get them with odd levels.

edit: I was looking at stuff like Mage Armor, Detect Secret Doors, Master's Touch, Expeditious Retreat, Blur, Knock, Greater Heroism, Haste, Stoneskin, and Repair Damage, Displacement, and Shadow Walk. I'm not sure if they all have a wand though.

[GeneralDiomedes]

UMD is superior for wand/scroll usage, so just a question .. what is your INT and Race? If you can catch up your UMD ranks in 6 levels I would go for Bard. I am betting you won't have the points however, but worth a try.

[Kargon]

Easily solved then. I've seen a few high level clerics with a level of sorcerer but not bard. Sorcerer it is.

Besides, you're not really missing anything by being all cleric spellwise, since you only get them with odd levels.

edit: I was looking at stuff like Mage Armor, Detect Secret Doors, Master's Touch, Expeditious Retreat, Blur, Knock, Greater Heroism, Haste, Stoneskin, and Repair Damage, Displacement, and Shadow Walk. I'm not sure if they all have a wand though.

Mage armormer are self only, but come in handy potimion form. Detect secret doors most usefumul on a clicky, masters touch not come on wand that kargon see, expedious come on wands but only last 1 miniminute and maybe also self only, stonemaskin, blur and knock wands are pretty handy, gh definatamally not come on wands, haste not on wands, repair handy, displacemament and shadow walk kargon not sure of.

[Zenako]

Pretty positive you will never see Shadow Walk on a Wand. Displacement might be on a Looted Wand, but I do not recall EVER seeing them at a vendor (witness the stack of scrolls my bard used to carry).

Think carefully about what spells you really expect to be casting/using from those lists and how most are readily available from other sources as mentioned. Unless your INT is really bad, you could get perhaps more from taking Wizard and the Meta feat you would get and the flexibility to know a whole handful of situational 1st level spells.

[Wan6Tan6]

Interesting idea, but it's only 13 before enhancements. The cleric is a drow. My UMD rank is 10 with my modifiers, however. I would probably be stretching the toon too thin with that.

Also, isn't there no UMD check for wands of certain classes? I wonder which would be better.

[Zenako]

That is kinda why I suggested you think about what it really is you want to do and what it is you want to use. Once that is determined, the best course of action is often easier to see. It is easy to regret a multiclass choice after you pick it, and it is impossible to undo, if you do not do it for the right reasons.

Go and look at all the wands at the vendors in House P and J, see what you can actually buy and what is not available and if $$ is an issue look at the prices as well. Higher level spell and effects wands are not cheap.

Always keep you eyes open for really nice dual purpose items. Feather Falling Boots of Detect Secret Doors 3/rest for example.

13 INT would be fine for a WIZ who was not planning on going much higher, and the actual SP increase for 1 level of WIZ with 13 INT vs 18 INT for example is pretty trivial.

If your Character level is high enough, you can use any Class available wand you lay your hands on, so no UMD needed. (I have a level 10 fighter with 1 Cleric level for this reason...first level Cleric spells are not so important now, but being able to use any cleric wand is nice. Scrolls however are another story.)

[Galapas]

Wands are limited to 4th and lower level spells. This might be confusing since some sorcerer/wizard spells are bard or cleric spells too, often of different level. From what I've seen, it is always assumed that the wand is soc/wiz if it can be. All hold person wands are 5th level to use even though clerics can cast it at 3rd level. So, even though hold monster, sphere of dancing and break enchantment are 4th level bard spells, you won't get them on wands in DDO because they are higher level sorc/wiz spells.

Even so, many eligible spells are not available on wands and probably never will be. I'd bet against knock, dimension door, wall of fire being available. I'm surprised stoneskin is sold, even more surprised that they forgot to tack on the extra cost for the material component.

One nice wand that I haven't seen listed is scorching ray. It comes in CL 3, 7 and 11 which produce 1, 2 and 3 rays respectively. Each ray does 4d6, or about 20 points, of fire damage with no save. Think of it as a crossbow that always hits for 20, 40 or 60 points of damage.

Oh, contrary to poster above, mage armor is not self only, that's "shield". Mage armor can be cast on others. There is just almost never any reason to do it. It doesn't stack with armor.

[Zenako]

Knock wands are definitely in the game. I know my Bard has a few, but they might have been looted wands not purchased.

[Arianrhod]

Interesting idea, but it's only 13 before enhancements. The cleric is a drow. My UMD rank is 10 with my modifiers, however. I would probably be stretching the toon too thin with that.

Also, isn't there no UMD check for wands of certain classes? I wonder which would be better.

You wouldn't need to make a UMD check for the wands if you took the sorc level. Might for some of them with a bard level instead (Stoneskin, for instance). It would be for scrolls (not really necessary since the scrolls you'd most want to use you have the cleric levels for anyway), and race-restricted items, mostly.

Useful wands you'd get access to with a sorc level include stoneskin, all repair wands, detect secret doors, blur...
Mage armor isn't all that useful (doesn't stack with armor), but is castable on others (Kargon, play your wizard more, you'll see). Expeditious retreat is nice, but short duration unless you can find a higher caster level (check the auction house). It's also self-only. Same for shield. As for knock - 10th level knock wands can be handy, lower level ones aren't much use.

The other spells you mentioned (haste, GH, shadow walk, Master's Touch) don't come on wands. Some are too high level (GH), some are too useful (haste), some might just be too new to the game (Master's Touch).

[Impaqt]

With my Cleric, I want to use some of the wands of either Bard or Sorcerer. I want to use more different kinds of buffs. I know I must take a level of one of the other for this, but which one? I'm sitting comfortable with wis/cha 18 without items, but which splash class is better for this. Thanks for any responses.

Didnt youjust say in another thread that you were perfectly happy paying your cleric? Why all of a suden the need to "Branch Out?"

[Zenako]

Ok wand use between a Wiz and Sorc is the same.

Spell points will favor the Sorc somewhat.

1st level Sorc will have 2 spell slots - 1st level Wiz will have 3 and can change them at any shrine/bar

1st level arcanes can hit the same Enhancements pretty much.

1st level Wiz gets a "free"metamagic feat. 1st level Sorc does not, but does get faster cooldowns on Sorc spells.

While a handful of the 1st level spells are useful, you will only be casting them at 1st level of effect and more importantly DURATION. A buff you need to recast every minute is a pain (2 if you have extend), and if you do need to keep recasting it often, that is a lot of SP to be burning. The power of the Sorc to Spam spells is all but useless when all you have are 2 first level spells to choose from. 1 HD magic missiles?

[Arianrhod]

The power of the Sorc to Spam spells is all but useless when all you have are 2 first level spells to choose from. 1 HD magic missiles?

hehe

My bard uses her sorc level to spam repair light on the warforged - with a sup. potency 1 item, it can do more than some higher level cures, and barely makes a dent in her spellpoints

[edit - might not be as good a choice for a cleric, though. 5% spell failure is one thing, 35% is another...]

[Zenako]

hehe

My bard uses her sorc level to spam repair light on the warforged - with a sup. potency 1 item, it can do more than some higher level cures, and barely makes a dent in her spellpoints

[edit - might not be as good a choice for a cleric, though. 5% spell failure is one thing, 35% is another...]

Good point, forgot all about the Arcane Spell Failure vs Armor issue that will crop up as well.

[Wan6Tan6]

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with my cleric as is. Although why should I waste that last level?

The armor issue really isn't that big. I never get attacked anyway with my 25 Diplomacy. Medium or Light Armor suits me fine.

Although the extra metamagic feat with Wizard is tempting... But you're not very effective with low wisdom, are you?

[Blazer]

Although the extra metamagic feat with Wizard is tempting... But you're not very effective with low wisdom, are you?

I'm confused how these two things are related, the metamagic and the low wisdom. Anyway, with that free meta feat you can take Quicken, Enlarge, Maximize, Empower (for example) - none of these have anything to do with your wisdom. If none of those appeal to you, you could respec out of a metamagic feat you already have (say, Extend?), take some other feat you might want, and then pick Extend back up with that wizard level.

[Impaqt]

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with my cleric as is. Although why should I waste that last level?

The armor issue really isn't that big. I never get attacked anyway with my 25 Diplomacy. Medium or Light Armor suits me fine.

Although the extra metamagic feat with Wizard is tempting... But you're not very effective with low wisdom, are you?

Not sure what your refering to "Wasting"

that last even level Translates to an extra spell slot for your 2 highest spell levels.. All the way up to Level 20.

that last cleric level will mean more spell points.

that last cleric level may even mean the difference between being able to grab the highest level enhancments someday.

Losing that level reduces your spell pennetration.

Taking an arcane level for that last level reduces your hit points.


I'd argue that taking an arcane level on a cleric is wasting that arcane level for sure. Youhave no effective arcane buffs, you've reduced your spell penn, hit points and spell points.....

Sure the extra meta is nice, but unnecessary for most builds.