Wizard Armor opinion

[Filandor]

The question is regarding using twilight leather armor and/or mithral light shields both of which have 0%spell chance...are they worth it? I know the common response of playing what you want. I ask because a friend of mine states they are useless because of how much one has to give up with minimal benefits since AC will never be raised high enough to make a difference in battle. I'm a level 6 Wiz and only play with his character level 5 fighter/ 1 Rogue. I don't see how raising my AC by 7 points (16-23) using +1 twilight leather armor (AC 3) and +3 mithral light shield (AC 4) both of which are useable by level 6 characters, won't be beneficial since I will always be attacked with there only being 2 of us. Currently, I die a lot. Now his idea is that I should learn how to play a wizard better which is definately true, and cast, hide in shadows, cast hide in shadows along with diplomacy. I never did say what he believes I would be giving up which is the stats robes can offer on top of another scepter in hand. What are your thoughts?

~Filandor

[MrCow]

If you find yourself in trouble, a mithril light or heavy shield is nice to have in the event you need to block. Also, at the lower levels AC is helpful, but in time you will find that no matter what you do for your AC it will hardly be enough.

[Cadaia]

Now his idea is that I should learn how to play a wizard better which is definately true, and cast, hide in shadows, cast hide in shadows along with diplomacy.

Um, if this is what he has told you to do, then your friend needs to learn how to play a wizard better. Hiding in shadows does NOT work after you've drawn aggro. If targetting a single monster, every other monster in his group will know where you are. If using an AoE spell, then they're all hit any way. In either case, once you've hit them, you can't hide from them. Wish hiding worked that way (as I believe it's supposed to in pnp and other PC games), but it doesn't.

Diplomacy is useful to a degree, but you have to have another threat with you to direct the mobs to. So, if your friend isn't very much of a threat either, that'll only work to a limited extent.

I personally, find some value in wearing padded or twilight leather and taking the elven arcane fluidity enhancements. And a mithril shield to block with is by no means useless in a wizard's hands.

[Galapas]

I don't see how raising my AC by 7 points (16-23) using +1 twilight leather armor (AC 3) and +3 mithral light shield (AC 4) both of which are useable by level 6 characters...

That's +7 to AC. Mage armor and shield is +8 to AC. Wands of mage armor are very useful, since even at 1st level they last 6 minutes. Shield really needs to be cast, but it also protects you from magic missiles. It's only 10 power every 6 minutes (at 6th level).

A Robe of Invulnerability will save you more damage than any amount of AC at your level. This is a 4th level item if you can find it without any extra garbage. It gives DR 5, which at your level means you almost ignore all enemy archers. Not relying on real armor also lets you use robe "clickies" in combat which other people don't like, so you can get them cheaper.

Also, don't overlook the defensive aspects of other spells. At higher levels, most casters have jump on all of the time, and either expeditious retreat, or a striding item. You can run monsters around if you're faster than them. Jump gets you out of packs, or lets you turn on your pursuers and jump over them, so you can run them back to your buddies.

For blocking purposes, I used to carry a +2 Adamantine tower shield. When things got real bad, and I couldn't run around, I'd pull out the tower shield and any melee weapon and just block. When I was wearing my Robe of Invulnerability, my DR got into the 20s, though the Adamantine didn't stack with the robe.

[TommyBoy]

The question is regarding using twilight leather armor and/or mithral light shields both of which have 0%spell chance...are they worth it? I know the common response of playing what you want. I ask because a friend of mine states they are useless because of how much one has to give up with minimal benefits since AC will never be raised high enough to make a difference in battle.

well I have a lvl8 pure wiz that with shield of faith and bark skin pots with mith chainshirt and mith l shield is around 40ac mix in blu and i rarely get touched. on the flip my main lvl15 pure wiz has next to no dex the shield brings him to 20 not good at seeing how i have to give up my spell pen weapon.

hope this helps

[Lucian_Navarro]

Typically I do not put this on the forums but your question has good merit. I can answer it from personal experience as I primarily play a Fighter/Wizard.

One level of Fighter and the rest in Wizard. The one fighter level gives a great deal of benefits, but the main one you should be aware of is the use of armor and shields without incurring any "attack" penalties.

You will find that wearing a suit of +3 twilight and mithral (must have both) full plate will grant an armor base of 11. Since it is Mithral, you can have a 16 DEX giving you +3 more armor class. Add the Fanion +4 Heavy Twilight/Mithral Shield and you're looking at another 6 points of Armor Class.

The remaing standard items and spells such as +5 Deflection, +3 Dodge from the Chattering Ring, +2 Dodge from the Chaosgardes, +3 to +5 for barkskin, +5 for Combat Expertise and so on. Can be added to your character giving a him/her a very nice Armor Class.

Base: 10
DEX: 3
Armor: 11
Shield: 6
Dodge: 6 (with haste)
Deflection: 5
Natural: 5
Misc: (Insight: 1-4)
Misc: (CE: 5)
Misc: (Paladin: 4)
Misc: (Fighter Action Boost: 2)
Misc: (Inspire Heroics: 4)
66 Total

Granted, the Arcane Spell Failure can be a pain but if you are an Elf or Drow with either the Seven Fingered Gloves or the Fanged Gloves then you can still have a 0% ASF.

Hope this helps.

ZEIRA
"The Angry Blue Faerie"

[Arianrhod]

That's +7 to AC. Mage armor and shield is +8 to AC. Wands of mage armor are very useful, since even at 1st level they last 6 minutes. Shield really needs to be cast, but it also protects you from magic missiles. It's only 10 power every 6 minutes (at 6th level).

Quoted for emphasis - you get more armor class by keeping Mage Armor + Shield active than by wearing the armor the OP mentioned. The mage armor spell doesn't stack with worn armor, and the shield spell doesn't stack with an equipped shield, so it's one or the other, not both.

[sigtrent]

Usualy there are two cattegories...

Normal wizards who use the armor/shield spell along wtih fearsome robes and buffs like blur/displacement for defense and tend to run and jump around a lot after casting damage spells. This works just fine most of the time.

Wizards who plan their character out to use armor and get just the right dex and take the elven armored caster enhancements etc... In the end they can get enough AC to avoid hits from common monsters but not from the big brutes like ogres or high level demons etc...

Both work, its just that #2 takes more investment in non casting than #1 and I'd only recomend it if you plan on doing a lot of melee combat with your wizard, aka you are some kind of battle wizard. And even then you tend to still do most of the things wizard #1 does by casting defensive buffs. Displacement is often the best defense you can have no matter what your AC is.

Recomendation for you: Find and buy a Fearsome robe and cast blur on yourself always. Those two things will save your bacon far more often than +1 twilight leather.

[rimble]

Why aren't things in a Web? Or Dancing? Or Charmed? Or Glitterdusted? Are you Displaced or at least Blurred? Get a Fearsome robe! Later on you can really unleash your inner Wizard and wreck things, but right now keep it low key. Don't attract attention, keep aggro on the other guy. For now, be the wind beneath his wings. Soon he'll just stand around and open doors for you.

[Galapas]

Typically I do not put this on the forums but your question has good merit. I can answer it from personal experience as I primarily play a Fighter/Wizard.

One level of Fighter and the rest in Wizard. The one fighter level gives a great deal of benefits, but the main one you should be aware of is the use of armor and shields without incurring any "attack" penalties.

You will find that wearing a suit of +3 twilight and mithral (must have both) full plate will grant an armor base of 11. Since it is Mithral, you can have a 16 DEX giving you +3 more armor class. Add the Fanion +4 Heavy Twilight/Mithral Shield and you're looking at another 6 points of Armor Class.

The remaing standard items and spells such as +5 Deflection, +3 Dodge from the Chattering Ring, +2 Dodge from the Chaosgardes, +3 to +5 for barkskin, +5 for Combat Expertise and so on. Can be added to your character giving a him/her a very nice Armor Class.

Base: 10
DEX: 3
Armor: 11
Shield: 6
Dodge: 6 (with haste)
Deflection: 5
Natural: 5
Misc: (Insight: 1-4)
Misc: (CE: 5)
Misc: (Paladin: 4)
Misc: (Fighter Action Boost: 2)
Misc: (Inspire Heroics: 4)
66 Total

Granted, the Arcane Spell Failure can be a pain but if you are an Elf or Drow with either the Seven Fingered Gloves or the Fanged Gloves then you can still have a 0% ASF.

Hope this helps.

ZEIRA
"The Angry Blue Faerie"

If he's only duoing with his buddy, he's never seeing most of that equipment, nor getting the bard or paladin benefits.
__________________________________________________ _______________
Back to original poster:

You're friend, who obviously knows nothing about playing a wizard, was inadvertantly right. To avoid dying, you'll need to learn some tricks. There's nothing wrong with not knowing them; everybody needs to learn sometime.

I mentioned above running fast to stay away from enemies, and jumping to avoid getting mobbed. You should also learn to use terrain. Monsters don't handle it all that well. Every corner you turn, every obstacle you jump over gives you a little seperation - provided you have a good link and move with precision. Often, you can jump up the side of a ramp or staircase, and the monster will run to the base to follow you up. You can jump over crates that they run around. That can give you time to hynotize a pack of hobgoblins, or cast suggestion on an ogre. I make a habit of running around town with jump and expeditious retreat on, jumping over stuff, leaping from roof to roof, just to get good at it. Then, when I need to move in combat ...well I still screw up a lot, but I'm better than I would be.

AC is not your only defense against being hit. Blur and displacement give chances of negating any hit. Often, the benefits of these spells will be larger than that given by your armor class. Damage reduction, from robes, some items, and later, from stoneskin, are very good at reducing damage until you get to things that really whomp on you.

Not all damage is physical. At your level, you are probably running into a lot of hobgoblins who cast scorching ray. The fire resistance spell will reduce that damage to half at your level, and once you hit 7th, it will often completely eiminate it, or reduce it to just a few HPs of damage.

For ranged attacks and most ranged spells, just a little movement goes a long way. Enemies attempt to shoot where they think you will be. If you just use the "Q" and "E" keys to slide back and forth, you can see their shots often go way off to the side. You can often avoid arrows, scorching rays or Niac's this way, but it doesn't work on magic missile.

[Sani_Medicor]

I carry a shield on my wizard to occasionally help block a door or something. I wouldn't advise putting down a firewall and trying to block all the agro you get though. lol