What are the Max's for Clerics?

[Malus]

So I dusted off my cleric Silverleaf after playing my bard/rogue Vintage for a while. I just got him from 14 to 16, love the higher spells, and respeced him with Empower Heal, Quicken, Maximize, Extend, and the Mana feats.

He is elven, yes my first toon and I wanted him to use longswords and bows......

His stats are good, not elite maxed but he can manage he is at 34 wisdom buffed

My question is he is very low on AC when I talk to other clerics, his health and mana seem avg.

I want to crank up his AC and mana if possible. So for all you number crunchers out there.

What are the max a lvl16 elven cleric can his with base 12 con, 12 dex and base 16 wis in the following things. And what do I nee to hit it. I have or can get most items so consider anything fair game.

1) Armor Class

2) Health - with no Toughness feats other than the Tapestry helm which I put on after I buff

3) Mana - I use a wiz6 hat but just got all the items to make up to tier 2 goggles so use that for mana

4) Wisdom

Thanks
Vintage

[toughman]

1) Armor Class 38 unbuffed, board and potency 7 mace
2) Health - 210
3) Mana - 1540
4) Wisdom - 32

Armor class really means nothing to me at this point, my toon is pure healer, 80% of the time, i'm camoflauged and invisible, I swith robes left and right, and if it comes down to it i can get my ac max to 49

Mana is the key, if you run out of blue bar, hope theres another cleric in the group or you got mana pots.
Oddly enought i took
empower
extend
maximize
mental toughness
improved mental toughness
and the Quicken

favorite spell is my lvl 2 soundburst and i rarely hightnen it, mass stun for 15 mana, I'll take that.
Get your hands on Stonemeld or MFP if you are heading to ac, but really unless your a battle cleric, it's rare your gonna get hit.

[Auran82]

My cleric is only level 4 at the moment, but I would probably recommend empower over empower healing mainly due to Blade Barrier.

Your heals will hit for a fair amount already and the extra is usually overkill.

[sirgog]

As far as AC goes, the above estimate of 38 seems about accurate without good gear. With non-raid good gear, maybe 47 or so, with raid loot low 50s. That's OK if you plan to run in the Gianthold on hard, but useless for endgame content as almost all mobs save the bats will hit you on a 2 either way.

As far as defense goes, I'd forget all about AC and go and get yourself some nice Fearsome robes with a 20 or 30-point energy resist on them, then get your pet Wiz or Sorc to hit you with Stoneskin.

[Ringos]

As far as AC goes, the above estimate of 38 seems about accurate without good gear. With non-raid good gear, maybe 47 or so, with raid loot low 50s. That's OK if you plan to run in the Gianthold on hard, but useless for endgame content as almost all mobs save the bats will hit you on a 2 either way.

As far as defense goes, I'd forget all about AC and go and get yourself some nice Fearsome robes with a 20 or 30-point energy resist on them, then get your pet Wiz or Sorc to hit you with Stoneskin.

Good idea. Since I don't have a false life item, I'll throw on a Fearsome Robe of Improved Falselife at times. The extra HP come in handy at times.

[sirgog]

Good idea. Since I don't have a false life item, I'll throw on a Fearsome Robe of Improved Falselife at times. The extra HP come in handy at times.

I was going to suggest exactly that item for quests where you never get dispelled. At current endgame, Fearsome robes of 20 or 30 Sonic resistance are exceptional (for dealing with Orthons).

[Drekisen]

My cleric is only level 4 at the moment, but I would probably recommend empower over empower healing mainly due to Blade Barrier.

Your heals will hit for a fair amount already and the extra is usually overkill.

If u really want to keep ur healing tweaked, yes empower healing may be over kill on Heal spells....even tho I disagree with this also as u can let someones hp get really low and top them off in one shot and conserve a lot of mana.....empower heal is great for making ur cure mass spells much more effective. Very nice in stuff like the Shroud when u can target one of the tanks and get everyone healed at once. Plus u can spam Mass Critical thru Mass Light if need be back to back with no cooldown time at all.
Have saved party wipes in part 4 of the Shroud due to lag spikes with this.

[samho]

If u really want to keep ur healing tweaked, yes empower healing may be over kill on Heal spells....even tho I disagree with this also as u can let someones hp get really low and top them off in one shot and conserve a lot of mana.....empower heal is great for making ur cure mass spells much more effective. Very nice in stuff like the Shroud when u can target one of the tanks and get everyone healed at once. Plus u can spam Mass Critical thru Mass Light if need be back to back with no cooldown time at all.
Have saved party wipes in part 4 of the Shroud due to lag spikes with this.

Hmm you do realize Empower Spell do the same Healing amount on mass cure like Empower Healing with 5 extra sp cost, and not working with Heal spell right? :-)

Not saying you must have one of them or not, but like to point out what Auran82's want to comment

[samho]

The max AC a 12 dex base elf can manage to get by him/herself was..

10 base
13 +5 MFP (not including DEX bonus)
4 DEX bonus (assuming you can make yourself 18 dex by a single +6 item, and get a Daggertooth's Belt)
9 +5 Mithral tower Shield (which limit dex bonus to 4)
2 dodge bonus if you goes Lawful Good / or have enough UMD and can free your bracer slot up for it
5 Deflection Bonus
3 Neutral Bonus (Barkskin potion and such)
2 Lucky Bonus from Recitation (your own spell)
1 dodge bonus from Haste
4 Insight Bonus AC if you craft an Greensteel Weapon
3 dodge bonus from Chattering Ring
1 dodge bonus from Greensteel Item's Air Guard triggered Haste

Which is 57 AC, without Combat Expertise ( another +5 ), without Dodge ( another +1 but you got to eat a +1 dex tome), without high level ranger's barskin ( another +2 ), without high level pally aura (another +4?), so you can manage up to 69AC with ranger and pally's help and specific feat selection.



If you only fight Elite Vale / Shroud content and Elite Orthon / Breaded Devil, then such AC might be useless; however, there's no huge problem against normal vale / shroud thing if you didn't sacrifice much on your cleric thing to make it. When you fighting monster on vale in normal setting with 50+ AC, you can ignore most trash monsters over there; the only thing you need to worry about was those orange/red name.

Since my personal *experience* may not be accurate, I just log my melee spec battle cleric step into shroud in normal (alone), beside Elite Orthon Guard (You probably need a 63+ AC to make AC effective against them) and maybe Elite Breaded Devil, Fiend-Blood Trog Warchief hit my 54AC 1~2 out of 20 swing (Trog Stalker has slighly worse to-hit than their Warchief brother), and Fiend-Blood Troll there have a trouble hit me at 48 AC (1 out of 20 swing).

Crimson Foot Drone in Sleeping Dust normal can't even hit me with 40 swing at 40 AC. Kar-Thul Enforcer there may need 52+ AC to make him has trouble hitting you (like 1-2hit per 20 swing).

Breaded Devil and Orthon on normal will also have trouble hitting me at 52+ AC (1 out of 20 swing).


So AC may no longer make you invincible past giant hold but if you can still manage to get high AC, it is STILL useful.

[Indel_Eventine]

1)
favorite spell is my lvl 2 soundburst and i rarely hightnen it, mass stun for 15 mana, I'll take that.
Get your hands on Stonemeld or MFP if you are heading to ac, but really unless your a battle cleric, it's rare your gonna get hit.

I use the enchanted darkleaf enchanted armor from Tempest, I think - +4 resistance item for me basically.

[sirgog]

The max AC a 12 dex base elf can manage to get by him/herself was..

10 base
13 +5 MFP (not including DEX bonus)
4 DEX bonus (assuming you can make yourself 18 dex by a single +6 item, and get a Daggertooth's Belt)
9 +5 Mithral tower Shield (which limit dex bonus to 4)
2 dodge bonus if you goes Lawful Good / or have enough UMD and can free your bracer slot up for it
5 Deflection Bonus
3 Neutral Bonus (Barkskin potion and such)
2 Lucky Bonus from Recitation (your own spell)
1 dodge bonus from Haste
4 Insight Bonus AC if you craft an Greensteel Weapon
3 dodge bonus from Chattering Ring
1 dodge bonus from Greensteel Item's Air Guard triggered Haste

Which is 57 AC, without Combat Expertise ( another +5 ), without Dodge ( another +1 but you got to eat a +1 dex tome), without high level ranger's barskin ( another +2 ), without high level pally aura (another +4?), so you can manage up to 69AC with ranger and pally's help and specific feat selection.



If you only fight Elite Vale / Shroud content and Elite Orthon / Breaded Devil, then such AC might be useless; however, there's no huge problem against normal vale / shroud thing if you didn't sacrifice much on your cleric thing to make it. When you fighting monster on vale in normal setting with 50+ AC, you can ignore most trash monsters over there; the only thing you need to worry about was those orange/red name.

Since my personal *experience* may not be accurate, I just log my melee spec battle cleric step into shroud in normal (alone), beside Elite Orthon Guard (You probably need a 63+ AC to make AC effective against them) and maybe Elite Breaded Devil, Fiend-Blood Trog Warchief hit my 54AC 1~2 out of 20 swing (Trog Stalker has slighly worse to-hit than their Warchief brother), and Fiend-Blood Troll there have a trouble hit me at 48 AC (1 out of 20 swing).

Crimson Foot Drone in Sleeping Dust normal can't even hit me with 40 swing at 40 AC. Kar-Thul Enforcer there may need 52+ AC to make him has trouble hitting you (like 1-2hit per 20 swing).

Breaded Devil and Orthon on normal will also have trouble hitting me at 52+ AC (1 out of 20 swing).


So AC may no longer make you invincible past giant hold but if you can still manage to get high AC, it is STILL useful.

60 AC will result in a noticeable decrease in melee hits suffered in Vale quests on elite and in the Shroud on normal. This is a good defense - up there with having the combination of Blur, Stoneskin & Fearsome armor. (48-50 is sufficient in Vale quests on normal, and about 55 on hard, but be very careful in Running with the Devils).

~68 is good enough for Shroud hard. This takes serious raid loot to achieve, and a build heavily focussed on AC.

~73 is good enough for the Shroud on elite. This takes a build exclusively focussed on AC, plus raid loot including the very hard to find Chattering Ring.

[jmonty]

Hmm you do realize Empower Spell do the same Healing amount on mass cure like Empower Healing with 5 extra sp cost, and not working with Heal spell right? :-)

Not saying you must have one of them or not, but like to point out what Auran82's want to comment

don't you mean 'maximize?' either way..

i had empower healing and swapped it out for empower but it just costs too much to cast a max empowered extended & quickened blade barrier, and the empower doesn't seem to add enough to the damage to make it worth it.