Can Monks..

[vainangel]

Fair enough. Won't be keeping my eyes open for your monk build though.

OK friend. I am sorry if that come wrong, but no need to be poppy. I was just saying in general...there is a minor and not so big diff. There are a thousand ways to do anything in this game. All up to play style and what you expect to be able to do.

right?

[Ghoste]

I agree. I'm just saying it's obvious I value con more on any class than you apparently do. It wasn't meant to question your ability to build a character, just a statement that we clearly have different priorities in doing so.

[vainangel]

I agree. I'm just saying it's obvious I value con more on any class than you apparently do. It wasn't meant to question your ability to build a character, just a statement that we clearly have different priorities in doing so.

I can dig it

[Hvymetal]

I'd be leary going into melee w/ a 16 Con (including items). Going Warforged it's really not that hard to get a higher Con and still keep a respectable Strength and AC.

[Echoloc]

so what your saying is CON is the end all be all of the stats... it dont matter if you don't have any Str or Dex to actually be able to hit anything. Or in a Monk build Wis to make your attacks harder to resist or you harder to hit. so therefore everone should max their Con first and whatever you have left can get you a nice +1 or +2 to another stat..

[Korvek]

I don't think that's what they are saying...

[Ghoste]

so what your saying is CON is the end all be all of the stats... it dont matter if you don't have any Str or Dex to actually be able to hit anything. Or in a Monk build Wis to make your attacks harder to resist or you harder to hit. so therefore everone should max their Con first and whatever you have left can get you a nice +1 or +2 to another stat..

Yeah, twisting people's words like that, putting words in their mouth...that's really helping, isn't it?

As far as I'm concerned, when people start doing that, they aren't looking for a 2 way conversation, they're just being belligerent. Good luck with your one way conversation. I hope you can convince yourself of something useful.

[Echoloc]

Educate me.

[Ghoste]

Educate me.

First of all, "con is important" does not equal "always put as many points into con as you can before any other stat".

But then you already knew that. And that is why I don't believe any attempts to discuss this further with you are of any interest to myself.

Have a good day.

[wolfy42]

Increasing con as high as possible is always a good idea for any build usually up until the point where it costs more then 1 point to increase con anymore.

For some thats a 12 con, others a 14 and for dwarves and WF thats a 16.

Certain builds can't quite get to those numbers but if it's at all possible to do so, it is worth it for every single class to have your con at those levels for each respective race.

Spellcasters often find it worthwhile to go past those numbers and spend 4 points to get a 14, 16 or 18 even.

Monks are not a class where having a con past the 1pnt stage is really worth it. Concentration alone is not worth the investement (it gets plenty high by itself) and you already get extra hp as a monk. Your better off spending the points elsewhere and taking toughness feats instead in almost every case (especially since the stats you could boost probably increase ac and ab along with a saving throw etc).

On topic WF make decent monks but have some minor problems that I have noticed.

First they actually loose out on AC in many ways. While you can manage to snag a tiny bit more AC from a docent...that requires the use of the armor slot on non-monks and it is partially negated by the -2 wisdom.

Since you can reach a total AC of 7 with a normal +5 docent (you can get AC 7 robes just like the white dragon docent etc), your total armor AC is 3 higher then an armor potion that any monk can keep on constantly. Meanwhile the monk can wear any robes he wants instead.

Because of halflings bonus of 2 to dex and +1 size ac...there is NO DIFFERENCE between a halfling monk using an armor potion and a WF monk using a +5 docent. The halfling gets +1 ac from the bonus dex, +1 ac from not having -2 wisdom and +1 ac from size.

Meanwhile the halfling can wear any type of robe instead of the +5 docent.

Another disadvantage of the WF is FoL counts as healing (both pounding on the enemy and it's finishing move). Even though you can reach a 100% heal rate with your WF now with tier 3 monk bonus and WF bonus, the non WF monk would have 130% with half the AP spent (and humands can reach 160% with the same amount spent). The loss in healing hurts the WF.

Also many of the advantages a WF gets are negated by the monks naturally high saving throws and immunities later on.

I'm not saying a WF can not be a good monk, far from it, but I am saying they suffer a few penalties that make them a bit more challenging.

It makes sense for the WF to go with a strength QS build more then likely over the finess build due to the stat limitations. A strength based build could be fairly decent using Stunning blow and fire stance.

An interesting build for a WF monk could revolve around using as many normal feats as possible to boost your natural DR, using fire stance for Ki generation and fire guard/lightning guard etc on as many slots as possible. High AC is not needed due to the DR you get.

I believe you can hit 9/adamantium DR all the time if you put all your normal feats into DR bonuses. Then take toughness feats with your bonus monk feats. Grab an 18 con and have fun

Now that would be a fun metallic monk

[Echoloc]

Good education.

Thank you wolfy42 for putting numbers down.

[Inspire]

10 Con... Ouch... Maybe With A +2 Tome And +2 From Warforged And A +6 Item Thats Decent, But You Have The Potential For 22+ Con Without Sacraficing Much(If Anything).