Thanks for Keeping Some Things Secret

[HumanJHawkins]

Thanks Turbine, and Eladrin for what you have said about crafting in Mod 7. But thanks also for not telling us what new greensteel will be available, etc. I hear a lot of people complaining over the most ridiculous of things... Splintered Horns don't do anything yet. Boo Hoo Hoo!

People also complain that splintered horn might be used to make new greensteel types.... Um... How is this a bad thing? You would rather they do nothing? You think because they are equivalent to large ingredients that you shouldn't have to use them for such a small thing? How about this for an explanation: A greensteel dwarven ax in the hands of a dwarf is already an uber weapon... If you want to craft one, you have to use much more rare and expensive ingredients to create it, to justify the added benefit. So, yes, you will have to use a large horn if you want a greensteel axe.

Then there is the ultra ******** "There better not be any axes (or rapiers, etc.) because I already made mine." Um... Yeah. That Kopesh you made that does 2x the damage of any other weapon in the game... Yeah, that's suddenly going to be worthless if axes come out. And it would be so traumatic to you that we should not add something that half the player base really wants.

Or, maybe they won't add Dwarven Axes... Maybe just battle axes... People will probably complain about that too, instead of being happy to have another option. Whatever.

Anyway, I want to say thanks to Turbine for making a cool game and adding as much as they can as fast as they can without totally unbalancing the game.

[dragonoffrost]

It's fair and logical since when MOD 6 was announced they told us, many a time, it was a prototype.

Just because people rushed to make what was percieved to be the best in the game at the time doesn't make it their fault when they introduce better things.

Also what happens if new mod 7 loot is better than what can be crafted are those of you who crafted stuff going to gripe they should have told us before we made our Green Steels?

My sorc has her tier two gloves for cha skills and mana and if something better comes along I might grind for it I might not. Did I grind to get a Skiver from the Necropolis. Nope, not worth my time.

I think I must be playing a different game then most becuase I am happy to get what I can and play within those constraints. Maybe it's because my first few DM's in PnP never ran Monty Haul campaigns that I understand that the best stuff isn't always for me. If I get something fine but I don't need it to play a character.

I also am glad that Turbine is trying to keep some of the MOD secret. Too many people used Risia to find the e ...words and not report them. I don't think it should see the light of day before release except in a closed testing environment and they should make sure said testers test the system properly.

[Lorichie]

I as well appreciate not having everything laid out for me. I dont want to know everything. Surprises are good. There is a ton of stuff already in the release notes that i do know. Having some things to look forward too is good.

this game isnt about me, it isnt about what i want. Its about everyone as a group, nothing is developed for one person, or even one group of people really, why would any one person gripe about they in particular dont like?

Yep, i must be insane too, and a cheerleader it seems, because im more worried about the entire group of gamers out there, not just me, or one particular facet of the game. Mod seven is huge, if you (Generic you) cant find something good in there somewhere, well you (Generic you) are worried about yourself only, and how can anyone possibly do anything to make you happy?

Rich

[ENGRAV0]

I would just like to throw one more thing into the ring, according to some of the interviews, you will be able to UNDO what you have already done. So, if that is correct, and you get all your stuff back, when you undo your greensteel kHopesh and make your Greensteel (just for say...) Rapier, you can make it to exactly what you had on your kHopesh anyways. So not a big loss, just one run and you would already have everything ready. IF the undo does indeed give everything back.

So, Bring on the Dwarven Axes, and the Rapiers, I would rerun just to undo and redo a Rapier. Plus, by that logic, if everything that was crafted gets undone, you would even get the base ingredients for the current greensteel item back, so really nothing was lost. You got to use Khopesh while waiting for them to program in the Rapiers or Axes, I see it as a win/win.

Of course, that is IF the undo feature is indeed functioning correctly.

[Borror0]

So, Bring on the Dwarven Axes, and the Rapiers, I would rerun just to undo and redo a Rapier. Plus, by that logic, if everything that was crafted gets undone, you would even get the base ingredients for the current greensteel item back, so really nothing was lost. You got to use Khopesh while waiting for them to program in the Rapiers or Axes, I see it as a win/win.

I share the same PoV , but sadly:

We have not stated that there will be any form of deconstruction for green steel weapons at this time.

There will be many additions made to various systems over time, including the Shroud Green Steel system.

That said, if they allow recontruction, the Shards of Power should be lost. A small cost, to me.

[ENGRAV0]

Hmmm, will research where I got my info from, will edit or report in a few. I know I saw that in an interview somewhere. BRB.

[mgoldb2]

I also am glad that Turbine is trying to keep some of the MOD secret. Too many people used Risia to find the e ...words and not report them. I don't think it should see the light of day before release except in a closed testing environment and they should make sure said testers test the system properly.

I truly never understood this argument about risia most exploits it seem takes them months to fix and you worry about people knowing about them on release instead of 24-48 hours after it released?

I just have a hard time getting concern that people might have 30 days to exploit rather then 28 days................

On the other hand letting people get familiar with monks or new features and get to ask question about things that might be more confusing to learn then turbine thought before release so that they can be either clarify or fix to me is a good thing.

[dragonoffrost]

I truly never understood this argument about risia most exploits it seem takes them months to fix and you worry about people knowing about them on release instead of 24-48 hours after it released?

I just have a hard time getting concern that people might have 30 days to exploit rather then 28 days................

On the other hand letting people get familiar with monks or new features and get to ask question about things that might be more confusing to learn then turbine thought before release so that they can be either clarify or fix to me is a good thing.

I could see them releaseing monks on Risia early but not the quests. People will question the issues with a Monk since most of those things would be things that couldn't be taken advantage of after full release. The problem with releasing the quests would be that it is a PROVEN fact that exploits aren't reported. They are just used as an easy button for the first month or so after release.

I don't think this is a reflection on the populace as a whole but is a problem that needed a solution and the only real solution as of right now is to not release quests until the Module is released to the general public.

As for my experiences on Risia ... I downloaded it before the Orchard was released and went in and tried Inferno of the Damned and logged out and never went back in. Two guildies and I were three manning it and we discovered the basic idea of the quest and wiped so we laughed it off and logged out. I haven't went back into Risia since.

[mgoldb2]

I could see them releaseing monks on Risia early but not the quests. People will question the issues with a Monk since most of those things would be things that couldn't be taken advantage of after full release. The problem with releasing the quests would be that it is a PROVEN fact that exploits aren't reported. They are just used as an easy button for the first month or so after release.

I never said that don’t go on but my main point was it only takes 24-48 hours to find exploits for those that actually looking. The difference between them knowing about it for 30 days vs 28 days is to minor for me to worry about.

You make it sound like people would not know about exploits if it was not on test server when the reality is that exploits was found almost as fast in mod 1 before test server even existed.

[Borror0]

It's fair and logical since when MOD 6 was announced they told us, many a time, it was a prototype.

Just because people rushed to make what was percieved to be the best in the game at the time doesn't make it their fault when they introduce better things.

Nah, it's not alright.

Honestly, when they'll add new weapon, it'd be Really cool if they would also add deconstruction. If you save your money for months to buy something. Then the day after you bought it, it's on sale for half the price? You'd be ****ed off, eh? Well, in RL, it's to the advantage of the company to have kept it a secret: they've made money.

However, for Turbine, it's disadvantageous.

If they allow reconstruction, there will be people to get upset. You might disagree with their reasons and think differently, but they will still be upset. You may not even understand their reasons to be, but you cannot ignore the fact that there will be people upset over it. On top of it, there will be other people that will be happy over recovering ingrediants they used in early testing, or misreading an recipe. And, sooner or later, recovering ingrediants from a character you play no more.

It'll make some people happy, and those who, like you, don't mind of the way it is right now.. won't mind at all and might benefit from it one day.

It's more a question of if Turbine has money to put in that.

Also what happens if new mod 7 loot is better than what can be crafted are those of you who crafted stuff going to gripe they should have told us before we made our Green Steels?

Nah, I think no one would complain about that, if they do... they're whinners.

I think I must be playing a different game then most becuase I am happy to get what I can and play within those constraints.

Glad you like the way it is, I think the game is great, but could always use some improvement. Nothing is perfect.

Maybe it's because my first few DM's in PnP never ran Monty Haul campaigns that I understand that the best stuff isn't always for me. If I get something fine but I don't need it to play a character.

I don't see the analogy.

I also am glad that Turbine is trying to keep some of the MOD secret. Too many people used Risia to find the e ...words and not report them. I don't think it should see the light of day before release except in a closed testing environment and they should make sure said testers test the system properly.

I'm not. Surprises are nice, but the more they reveal, the more feedback they get, the better the game is.

[dragonoffrost]

Nah, it's not alright.

Honestly, when they'll add new weapon, it'd be Really cool if they would also add deconstruction. If you save your money for months to buy something. Then the day after you bought it, it's on sale for half the price? You'd be ****ed off, eh? Well, in RL, it's to the advantage of the company to have kept it a secret: they've made money.

However, for Turbine, it's disadvantageous.

If they allow reconstruction, there will be people to get upset. You might disagree with their reasons and think differently, but they will still be upset. You may not even understand their reasons to be, but you cannot ignore the fact that there will be people upset over it. On top of it, there will be other people that will be happy over recovering ingrediants they used in early testing, or misreading an recipe. And, sooner or later, recovering ingrediants from a character you play no more.

It'll make some people happy, and those who, like you, don't mind of the way it is right now.. won't mind at all and might benefit from it one day.

It's more a question of if Turbine has money to put in that.

I can see the deconstruction arguement but there should be a cost involved. You did use the item and get a benefit from it. I said in a different thread, might even have been on my guild website, that I could see a return of 2/3 to 3/4 of the input ingredients, and a depleted energy cell as a fair return value. Then you'd need to get the rest of the ingredients needed for your new item, replenish the energy cells and get the appropriate shards before you could make the new item. I mean did you not get a benefit from using the item for the time you had it before you deconstructed it?

I'm also not ignoring that people will be upset either way this turns out. I just don't understand how people are saying that if they add the new recipes they have decieved everyone. They haven't ... the system was a prototype. Meaning it may or may not have been the final system...

As for my statement:
Maybe it's because my first few DM's in PnP never ran Monty Haul campaigns that I understand that the best stuff always for me. If I get something fine but I don't need it to play a character.

This game gives better loot than any Pen and Paper game I have ever played. I came to this game to be able to experience DnD on a computer with other people playing it along with me instead of just playing alone against the AI of the game. I was amazed at how easily I got magic items. I had played a few PC games before DDO but none of them kept my interest. I've been playing DDO for 2 years now and can't see myself playing the old style games anymore. My game time is more about the people than the loot. The loot is nice don't get me wrong but it's secondary to the fun of walking into an instance with up to 12 people to complete a common goal.

I guess my whole point in these discussions is really "You were given a prototype system, Turbine announced it as such, and now when the prototype is being updated (notice the word same as any technology/manufacturer would use) certain posters are throwing a tantrum that what was left out of the first draft is now being added."

We've asked for other Green Steel Blanks and we may be getting the ones we want, we may not. Have I been very vocal about there not being scimitars for my Paladin. No I've said it a few times. If they add them great if not oh well. Since when has any raid had the variety of loot come out of it as the shroud. Most raids have how many named items as a reward? Now how many items can be crafted in the shroud. Are we looking a gift horse in the mouth? Most likely.

[GrayOldDruid]

I think I must be playing a different game then most becuase I am happy to get what I can and play within those constraints. Maybe it's because my first few DM's in PnP never ran Monty Haul campaigns that I understand that the best stuff isn't always for me. If I get something fine but I don't need it to play a character.

I also am glad that Turbine is trying to keep some of the MOD secret. Too many people used Risia to find the e ...words and not report them. I don't think it should see the light of day before release except in a closed testing environment and they should make sure said testers test the system properly.

The problem is that many people play the game with "Toons" and not "Characters." Yeah, its a different playstyle. "Toon" players are only interested in numbers and uber-loot, shortest completion time, higher kill-count, etc, etc, ad nauseous (sp meant that way). "Character" players are happy playing, even without all the 'top-level' loot and uber-numbers on stats and skills. I mostly PUG and some of the fun is taken out of the game because too many people zerg and don't appreciate me occasionally speaking "in character" while they are on their "run" of the quest. I still do it some anyways, because I like it. Mostly, I keep quite and do most of my "Character" via movements and stuff and keep it to myself. Tweek is my spastic Fighter and I will run ahead, stop, run back, jump up and down, run in a circle and say "Lets killz them!!" or "Who I need kill now?"

"Toon" players want to know everything in advance so they can plan out their perfect numbers and calculate the best advantage they can get. I am happy not knowing and being pleasantly surprised to find a cool item (and not knowing that it is not the most uber-whatever in this mod). My Ranger crafted his greensteel bow how he wanted it to be... not necessarily that it was the best damage-dealing against current mobs. But its his style.

... and yes, Min/Maxers in PnP aggrevated me too. Which is why I don't have a PnP game going right now - and also why I like indie rpgs like "The Shadow of Yesterday"

[ENGRAV0]

The problem is that many people play the game with "Toons" and not "Characters." Yeah, its a different playstyle. "Toon" players are only interested in numbers and uber-loot, shortest completion time, higher kill-count, etc, etc, ad nauseous (sp meant that way). "Character" players are happy playing, even without all the 'top-level' loot and uber-numbers on stats and skills. I mostly PUG and some of the fun is taken out of the game because too many people zerg and don't appreciate me occasionally speaking "in character" while they are on their "run" of the quest. I still do it some anyways, because I like it. Mostly, I keep quite and do most of my "Character" via movements and stuff and keep it to myself. Tweek is my spastic Fighter and I will run ahead, stop, run back, jump up and down, run in a circle and say "Lets killz them!!" or "Who I need kill now?"

"Toon" players want to know everything in advance so they can plan out their perfect numbers and calculate the best advantage they can get. I am happy not knowing and being pleasantly surprised to find a cool item (and not knowing that it is not the most uber-whatever in this mod). My Ranger crafted his greensteel bow how he wanted it to be... not necessarily that it was the best damage-dealing against current mobs. But its his style.

... and yes, Min/Maxers in PnP aggrevated me too. Which is why I don't have a PnP game going right now - and also why I like indie rpgs like "The Shadow of Yesterday"

I disagree, that is NOT always the case.

I use the word TOON because it is simply easier and more understood throughout. I RP many of my "Toons" and enjoy playing them as such. I just disagree with your statement, politely, But I do.

[gpk]

The problem is that many people play the game with "Toons" and not "Characters." Yeah, its a different playstyle. "Toon" players are only interested in numbers and uber-loot, shortest completion time, higher kill-count, etc, etc, ad nauseous (sp meant that way). "Character" players are happy playing, even without all the 'top-level' loot and uber-numbers on stats and skills. I mostly PUG and some of the fun is taken out of the game because too many people zerg and don't appreciate me occasionally speaking "in character" while they are on their "run" of the quest. I still do it some anyways, because I like it. Mostly, I keep quite and do most of my "Character" via movements and stuff and keep it to myself. Tweek is my spastic Fighter and I will run ahead, stop, run back, jump up and down, run in a circle and say "Lets killz them!!" or "Who I need kill now?"

"Toon" players want to know everything in advance so they can plan out their perfect numbers and calculate the best advantage they can get. I am happy not knowing and being pleasantly surprised to find a cool item (and not knowing that it is not the most uber-whatever in this mod). My Ranger crafted his greensteel bow how he wanted it to be... not necessarily that it was the best damage-dealing against current mobs. But its his style.

... and yes, Min/Maxers in PnP aggrevated me too. Which is why I don't have a PnP game going right now - and also why I like indie rpgs like "The Shadow of Yesterday"

Oh come on, enough with the RP holier-than-thou attitude.
If you wanna roleplay and speak "in character" noone is stopping you from saying "thou" and adding "ast" and "eth" to the end of verbs, but take off your RP glasses and look at the bigger picture.

If a dwarf would have much preffered a greataxe (which incidentally goes with RPing) but crafted a maul instead, why should he/she be punished for it? It's not as if there are tons of quests where he got to "use" the crafted maul (except for maybe mineral2 vs PF). If other weapon types had been announced before people might have waited, and if they were planned they what was the point of not having them available since day 1 of Mod6?
You're honestly comparing a Ranger bow to the different melee weapon types?

Deconstructing at least to the imbued shards is a fair way to allow someone to "reforge" their weapon.

You can roleplay with an inferior weapon, noone cares, but if others would much rather use the superior rapier to a shortsword, what's the harm in letting them magically de-reconstruct/reforge ?

[dragonoffrost]

If a dwarf would have much preffered a greataxe (which incidentally goes with RPing) but crafted a maul instead, why should he/she be punished for it? It's not as if there are tons of quests where he got to "use" the crafted maul (except for maybe mineral2 vs PF). If other weapon types had been announced before people might have waited, and if they were planned they what was the point of not having them available since day 1 of Mod6?
You're honestly comparing a Ranger bow to the different melee weapon types?

I hear a lot of people crafting items specifically to kill the pit fiend ... well those items should be good against any devil. Seems to me a lot of mod 6 had devils and the like in or around it. Running with the Devils, Ritual Sacrifice, the Vale and the Shroud all have enough devils for the items to be of use in them. Also if your doing any good or elemental damages I bet they tear into the trash (non elemental resisted) enemies all throughout the game. Notice I can't say so because I read the release notes and followed the discussion about crafting and saw there wasn't an weapon any of my characters of appropriate level would use. I concentrated on my arcanes which could make a wearable item that would benefit them.

As for the arguement that you aren't getting to use the maul.... why did you make it if you weren't going to use it? I think a lot of the arguement is that it isn't the weapon you always use. Has there ever really been any raid weapon that is used 100% of the time? Closest I know of would be Sword of Shadows or Cloudburst (greatswords). Again I also want to ask does any raid drop a weapon of every weapon type available? The answer is no. Why should the shroud?

[Angelus_dead]

The problem is that many people play the game with "Toons" and not "Characters." Yeah, its a different playstyle. "Toon" players are only interested in numbers and uber-loot, shortest completion tim

No. Those players who role-play a "character" would like to be able to use in-character information to direct the choices made by the character.

If a dwarf barbarian has 24 large ingredients and is thinking about building a Mineral 2 Maul, he should be able to decide based on things his character knows. He shouldn't have to be playing guessing games with the developer posts as to if a new item will come out at the end of the month and obsolete what he makes today.

[Raiderone]

I look at it this way. If better GreenSteel Weapons are available, then I'll just start over. The hardest part is the third tier.

It's a fact of life, good things come to those that wait. My ranger is just fine with his Khopesh. Now my figther,
sure I'd like to have that Bastard Sword but went with the Longsword. Whatever happens, I'll make the best of it.

Eventually I'm guessing that all weapons or most of them will become craftable. Hey I didn't like that Dragon Armor
was a waste of time for my Strength build Ranger, But I got over it.
I'm not complaining, only pointing out that at times not everything suits your needs.

My rogue has a greensteel shortsword, would've loved a rapier. BUt I'm not gonna complain when it comes out.
Matter of fact, i'll start on it right away. It never hurts to have two or three weapons.

I do wish that Turbine would give us more information. But It's not gonna cause me to leave

[Ryavin]

These forums have really turned me off to this game. They have made me realize that everyone wants to complain about everything. Me me me me me me me me me. It is always about ME. I will no longer come these forums as it has become a bunch of cry babies or people trying to flame others. What happened to the real discussions? For those of you that complain-be happy that you have this game in the first place and be thankful to the Devs for making this game as awesome as it is. If you want to complain then leave or make your own MMO if you are so **** smart-PEACE and feel free to flame me as this is the last time I will ever come to once great source of information. It is sad that the few have ruined these forums for the masses.

As for the previous poster Josh--get a life, this is just a game.

[Chelsa]

These forums have really turned me off to this game. They have made me realize that everyone wants to complain about everything.

Welcome to the DDO forums. Not only do players complain about everything they also complain about nothing some times.

Look at the bright side. It is entertaining.