Thoughts on playing a... Cleric! in the shroud.

[Eurytos]

Now that we have a general shroud guide and a caster guide, I figured I'd add my 2 cents in for the struggling clerics out there. Here's how to save some money on those heal scrolls and elixirs while bringing the most to the group.

Important Spells:
Resist Energy (Acid, Fire, Sonic)
Protection From Energy (Fire)
True Seeing
Poison Immunity
Prayer
Recitation
Divine Power
Divine Favor
Destruction
Remove Curse
Deathward, Mass
Freedom of Movement

What to Bring:
Heal Scrolls, 50 on normal, 100 on hard, 200 on elite
Elixir of Major Mnemonic, just a few... for emergency use only
Portal Beater weapon: High damage True Chaos, Pure Good, Good Burst, Maiming, Greater Construct Bane. It doesn't matter if you aren't proficient, you will only miss on a 1

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Part 1: Portal Bashing!

Buffing

Split up buffing duties between clerics and cast true seeing, resist energies and poison immunities on everyone in the group. Make sure Prayer is active throughout the entire part 1. The extra damage will help. For yourself, keep divine favor and divine power up constantly and help beat down the portals. Even if you're only doing 2-5 damage per hit, everything counts to make it go faster. There shouldn't be much healing to do here anyway.

Strategy

At the start, enemies will be pulled from both sides of the arena. If you have maximize and empower, you may choose to drop a couple blade barriers in the middle to quickly kill everything that comes down. Just be aware that everything will aggro you so be prepared to heal yourself if you do this. After the initial wave of enemies are dead, pull out your portal beater weapon, cast divine favor and divine power and beat on the portals! I don't care if you're a halfling cleric with 6 strength and a masterwork club, with buffs you will do damage! While running to portals, you can snipe a few troglodytes with Destruction for fun too.

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Part 2: The Lieutenants of Shavarath

Buffing

Again, split up buffing duties between clerics and cast resist energy (fire, acid and sonic,) mass deathward and poison immunity. Recitation will add +2 to your tanks' vorpal confirmation rolls so that is also very handy. Make sure to prepare freedom of movement also, you will need to cast it if you get the Earth Elemental as one of the four lieutenants.

Strategy

Once you're inside, you will be at one of the 4 corners of a square maze. Wait for a tank to lead the way before moving out so you don't get the attention of devils, orthons or bezekiras. If you have quicken spell and maximize spell, feel free to turn both of those on while the group fights all the enemies together to avoid failed concentration checks. You will able to use the trees to get your SP back before fighting the 4 named enemies, so don't worry about saving your mana too much. After your group has cleared all the enemies, head to an open tree at one of the 4 entrance corners and get your SP back. Try to find the corner or edge of the SP regen area and run back and forth across it so that you gain SP when your run forward, then again when you back up effectively doubling the rate in which you regain SP.
Now it's time to kill the four lieutenants. If you have the Kobold, be sure everyone has deathward on as he uses a Vorpal weapon. If you have the Earth Elemental, make sure whoever is assigned to fight it has freedom of movement to protect from Earth Grab. If you have the Devil, be prepared to cast remove curse on people who get cursed by the Devil's attacks. The Devil's curse will make them immune to all healing. While fighting the named enemies at the corner, try to use the tree while healing to keep your SP up to prevent having to use scrolls.

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Part 3: Lights Out Puzzles

Buffing

Do not buff for Part 3. There are no enemies to fight and you get dispelled while running through the hallways.

Strategy

If you do not know how to solve your puzzle, let the group know and stand by the purple barrier while you wait to be let out. When you get out, head to the south center room and heal others that come in so they can run waters to purify the fountains.

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Part 4: Meet Big Red Ugly

Buffing

Ok, now we get to fight the pit fiend. Make sure everyone has resist energy: fire, and protection from energy: fire. Everyone will also need poison immunity. Also, prepare Destruction, Prayer, and Recitation. If you have a decent UMD score, using Fire Shield scrolls will help you survive the fireballs. Fire Shield: Cold will negate 50% of fire damage.

Strategy

When you first go in, use Recitation and Prayer to help the melees. After the inital wave of Devils and Orthons, the pit fiend will drop in the middle. One thing to keep in mind here is to make sure you conserve as much mana as possible. Keep an eye on the blades that rotate around the arena as well, they do a good amount of damage. Use cure light mass on the melees over and over as soon as it's available. Use cure moderate mass only when needed, and use the Heal spell or scroll to spot heal a tank that's going low. I've seen many clerics say "I'll die before my tanks die," and, while very noble of you, it's counterproductive. Make sure your HP is always full, and make sure you always have a full 120 points of fire protection. If you die, you cannot be resurrected so it's better for the group if you have to let a tank die in order to keep yourself alive in this case.
When the blades close in on the Pit Fiend, he will disappear. Take this opportunity to gather the group together and top off their HP. Recast Recitation and Prayer and double check your fire protection. 4 Devils will spawn from the portals, after those die, the Pit Fiend will drop back down in the middle and the tanks will go back in to fight him. 8 Gnolls will spawn from the portals to heal the Pit fiend, use Destruction to kill them as soon as possible, the other clerics and casters will help with the rest, just pick a side and kill the two that spawn there. Repeat this until the Pit Fiend dies, usually 2-3 rounds with the average good group.

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Part 5: What the heck? Who killed us... and why are these guys back?

Buffing

Do not buff at the rest shrine in Part 4. You will die in transit to the next Plane. After the Pit Fiend's rant about his failure, he will command his Lieutenants to kill you. You will be revived with a death penalty but full HP and SP. If you had the Kobold in Part 2, immediately cast Mass Deathward to prevent your group members from being vorpal'd. If you have the Earth Elemental, cast a freedom of movement on the caster or tank assigned to baby sitting him.

Strategy

After respawning, you will have to kill all four lieutenants again. While fighting the lieutenants, you can go ahead and start buffing everyone with poison immunities and resist and protect fires. When three lieutenants are killed, the last one will be kept alive to allow time for SP users to regain their SP. There are 4 pools at the corners of the arena. Run back and forth across the corner of the pool to regen your SP quickly.
When everyone is fully buffed and SP bars are filled, gather the group together and cast a Recitation and Prayer. When the last lieutenant is killed, the Pit Fiend will drop down on the Altar and the fight begins. Pick one of the two southern pools near the Pit Fiend and run in and out of the pools while using mass heals on the melees. Again, make sure your fire protection stays up.

Additionally, I really encourage clerics to practice using the corner of the pools to regain SP as fast as possible while casting heals so that your SP bar never really goes down. I've got it down to the point where people have asked me "how is your SP still full??" after the fight because I never left the corner of the pool while casting my heals. This is the reason why my clerics rarely ever have to even equip heal scrolls or touch mnemonic enhancers. What I do is pick a melee that's in sight and in range then change my camera to birds eye view, directly on top of my character looking down on him. Then I use one hand to go back and forth on the corner of the pool while using the other hand to heal.

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Hope this little guide helps clerics new to the shroud raid out! Good luck with the loot!

[Angelus_dead]

Turn OFF empower healing for this part if you have it, you want to conserve SP, not go overboard on healing. Keep an eye on the blades that rotate around the arena as well, they do a good amount of damage. Use cure light mass on the melees over and over as soon as it's available. Use cure moderate mass only when needed, and use the Heal spell or scroll to spot heal a tank that's going low.

It is a mistake to deactivate Empower Healing prior to casting Mass Light or Mass Moderate, because you want to conserve SP. Using the feat conserves mana, while deactivating it wastes mana.

That's true even as a baseline, but becomes even more clear-cut if you have the Improved Empowered Healing enhancements (which basically everyone does)

[Eurytos]

It is a mistake to deactivate Empower Healing prior to casting Mass Light or Mass Moderate, because you want to conserve SP. Using the feat conserves mana, while deactivating it wastes mana.

That's true even as a baseline, but becomes even more clear-cut if you have the Improved Empowered Healing enhancements (which basically everyone does)

It depends really, if your tanks are really taking a beating, then maybe empower healing is good... But from my experience, the healing ends up being overkill with empower turned on and I end up healing them to full and beyond making that extra sp pointless. I found myself having more mana at the end of part 4 and 5 with it off than with it on.

Also, empowered Heal spells at 469hp are most of the time over kill as well. a 285hp heal followed by an unempowered cure light from on of the clerics on rotation will fill up most tanks that aren't super low on hp.


I guess it depends on the situation, but I'm just posting based on my personal experience.

[maddmatt70]

A couple of points and these points are more about healing styles and builds then anything else. I tend to use more cure mass mod scrolls then heal scrolls in the quest. I will use the cure mass scrolls when the devils come out on part 4 and sometimes between mass healing spells. I have empower healing on all the time, but I do have the max empower healing enhancements so it costs me less, but your point about trying to conserve mana and be efficient on part 4 and part 5 is a good one. Finally, and this is for an inexperienced player on the quest in part 2 if your group gathers all the initial mobs (devils, orthons, cats, etc.) to one area and you have the quicken feat feel free to turn that on for mass heals as you can get your mana back in the tree after that initial part and you don't exactly want people to die the advantage of quicken is more healing speed and no concentration breaks from the mobs.

[Eurytos]

and this is for an inexperienced player on the quest in part 2 if your group gathers all the initial mobs (devils, orthons, cats, etc.) to one area and you have the quicken feat feel free to turn that on for mass heals as you can get your mana back in the tree after that initial part and you don't exactly want people to die the advantage of quicken is more healing speed and no concentration breaks from the mobs.

Good point, added

Removed the tip to turn off empower, I'll leave that up to the player and just express the need to conserve.

[Impaqt]

Now that we have a general shroud guide and a caster guide, I figured I'd add my 2 cents in for the struggling clerics out there. Here's how to save some money on those heal scrolls and elixirs while bringing the most to the group.

Important Spells:
Resist Energy (Acid, Fire, Sonic) Its better to let the Palys or Rangers do the resists. They really dont have much else to spend their spell points on. Barkskin for everyone? Give me a break.... TOTAL waste of spell points....
Protection From Energy (Fire)
True Seeing Part 1 Only
Poison Immunity Again, Paly, Ranger or even Bards can cast neutralize Poison.. and Items are EASY to come by
Prayer Palys.
Recitation
Divine Power
Divine Favor
Destruction
Remove Curse Egads..... Carry a Wand I suppose, but if you rmelees arent carrying pots of Remove Curse in teh shroud they need to get booted fromt he group. Things happen way to fast for the cleric to keep an eye on everyone who migh tget cursed. If you get cursed, drink a Pot!
Deathward, Mass
Freedom of Movement Bard or Ranger

Comments Within

[Eurytos]

Well, in part 1, there isn't much healing needed anyway. I know a guildy who uses double vicious weapons on the portal just to use SP. The same goes for part 2, you can get your mana back before the main boss anyway so it doesn't hurt to just pass out resists with either left over unspent mana or after shrining.

It's up to the player to use a remove curse spell or wand. I don't know about you, but my cleric isn't hurting for level 3 spell slots so I can keep remove curse prepared. Yes, the tank should have potions, but let's be honest. We've all run into tanks that don't have them.

[Eudimio]

Strategy

At the start, enemies will be pulled from both sides of the arena. If you have maximize and empower, you may choose to drop a couple blade barriers in the middle to quickly kill everything that comes down. Just be aware that everything will aggro you so be prepared to heal yourself if you do this. After the initial wave of enemies are dead, pull out your portal beater weapon, cast divine favor and divine power and beat on the portals! I don't care if you're a halfling cleric with 6 strength and a masterwork club, with buffs you will do damage! While running to portals, you can snipe a few troglodytes with Destruction for fun too.

First off, excellent advice.

If you really, really want to be an awesome portal beater, equip TWO weapons. This way you'll get 8 attacks instead of 5 per progression. And you'll still only miss on a natural 1. Even if you don't have any TWF feats. This applies to any sword and board type melee. It's the dirtiest of the dirty little secrets about two weapon fighting. The three feats only net you 25% more attacks. Everyone gets 3 off-hand attacks at BAB 15 for free.

I also like to throw in the other mass buffs when I cleric. They save a little damage for some of your group.

Happy Hunting,
Nuckles.

[jkm]

i find it pretty tough to stay in the pools on my halfling cleric as i keep getting blocked messages because of the altar. one thing for halflings in the initial fight - you can get spell points back, but not dragonmarks. try your best to save them.

[Eurytos]

i find it pretty tough to stay in the pools on my halfling cleric as i keep getting blocked messages because of the altar. one thing for halflings in the initial fight - you can get spell points back, but not dragonmarks. try your best to save them.

Yup, it happens. What I try to to do is explain to my tanks what I'm going to do then try to get one tank that I trust and tell him to try to stand in range and on my side of the altar as much as he can. Then I cast my mass heals on that one person. I'll spot heal everyone else also, but I'll always go back to the guy in position for my masses.

[sirgog]

Generally agree with your suggestions (for a cleric that has a role of primary healer).

One thing I'd add - before people shrine at the end of parts 1 and 3, you should get everyone to gather and drop a Heroes' Feast on them. Once they shrine, the Feast will kick in and grant them immunity to poison and a couple of other not-insignificant buffs.

Besides, your PCs deserve it after hitting their heads (or Adoryn's Malices) against brick walls for 15 minutes.

I'd also like to point out that you can avoid spending SP on Divine Power in part 1 by using clickies of it. Any class can do this.

If you are specced for offensive casting, it's worth taking Cometfall for Part 2 (to smash the crystal when ready). Maximized Cometfalls tear it up.

Also on parts 4 and 5, there tends to be a debate raging between those who prefer the Mass Cure strategy (i.e. tanks bunch up and clerics spam Mass Cure spells) or the Focussed Cure/Three Hero strategies (the latter has 3 tanks meleeing the Fiend with one Cleric dedicated to healing each, the former sees the Clerics eschew Mass Cure spells in favor of casting the Heal spell on any target that gets low on HP). Personally, I prefer the Mass Cure strategy on part 4 in any and every group, and in part 5 I prefer using this method until SP run low, then switching to the Focussed Cure method from scrolls.





If your cleric has a different role in the party than primary healer, however, much of this information will not apply - for instance, although Numot can be a primary healer if needed, in a group with 3 or more total clerics Numot will focus on melee. In this situation Quicken goes on, and Numot swings a greataxe at Arraetrikos as fast as his stunted dwarf frame lets him, and alternates casting Mass Cure Moderate, Mass Cure Serious and Mass Cure Light centered on himself. Numot won't use targeted Heal spells on anyone save himself in this case (the other two clerics can do that).

Playing the melee battlecleric role requires a couple of things:
1) Quicken Spell is mandatory.
2) High HP are critical (ideally with some Fire damage mitigation such as Firestorm Greaves). If you aren't a Dwarf with the Toughness enhancements, the Pit Fiend might be too much for your HP bar to handle unless you have uber gear.
3) Don't play the battlecleric role if the party is very low on healing capability (i.e. don't do this if you are one of only 2 clerics in a PUG, or if you have 2 other clerics but both are firsttimers to the Shroud)
4) You need to be able to hit and hurt the Pit Fiend - on normal this is pretty easy, a +3 transmuter is good enough. On Hard you want better, and on Elite you, just like every melee toon in the group, will need something awesome for a weapon.
5) If you can find one, a Devotion 6 or better item that is not in the weapon slot is fantastic to have. The best one in the game is probably one of the Abbot Silver Flame pendant end rewards (Helm, Sup Dev 6, other caster stuff). Good luck getting that any time soon. Otherwise, blue dragonscale armor, Gauntlets of Eternity or a few other items will help out.

[Eurytos]

It's also possible to get Greater Devotion 6 helms and rings

[Aranticus]

Important Spells:
Resist Energy (Acid, Fire, Sonic) Its better to let the Palys or Rangers do the resists. They really dont have much else to spend their spell points on. Barkskin for everyone? Give me a break.... TOTAL waste of spell points.... clerics end up with 50-70% of sp left..... TOTAL waste of SP
Protection From Energy (Fire)
True Seeing Part 1 Only
Poison Immunity Again, Paly, Ranger or even Bards can cast neutralize Poison.. and Items are EASY to come by bards can cast neutralise poison?
Prayer Palys. better for clerics to casts as many pallys do not have extend
Recitation
Divine Power
Divine Favor
Destruction
Remove Curse Egads..... Carry a Wand I suppose, but if you rmelees arent carrying pots of Remove Curse in teh shroud they need to get booted fromt he group. Things happen way to fast for the cleric to keep an eye on everyone who migh tget cursed. If you get cursed, drink a Pot! not that one should always want others to drink pots. sometimes the melees are required to dps ie 3 boss mobs cept devil, tanks should be concentrating on trying to get the devil down, not drinking a pot
Deathward, Mass
Freedom of Movement Bard or Ranger

my replies to replies

[Aranticus]

OP, can I append you post to my thread?

[Eurytos]

Sure

[Soul-Shaker]

Some to add in

Heroes Feast so that to cover poison proof (cast it during group buffs times)

Part 1
Auto-run into portals and swing 2 weapons to take advantage of extra offhand attack every other swing even if you dont have the feat.

Part 2
If you have the bearded devil lut and after all the other mobs are rdy, gather together all except those tanking other mobs to have 1 and only 1 clr stand still and keep making blade barriers. This will take down the devil fast as each time he ports away, he will take the dmg from each blade barrier that is stacked on eachother (as long as the cleric has never moved, also only affects when mob leaves the bb and not enter)

Part 5
Symbol of weakness and/or pain for laying several symbols b4 spawning pit fiend.

[Impaqt]

my replies to replies

Yes, bards can cast Neu Poison
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Neutralize_Poison

Its Easy to recast Prayer. I dont even have Extend On half the time in part 1 on My clerics.

If your Winding up with that many spell points left on your cleric you are i ndeed wasting spell points... Drop a Blade barrier at each portal, Throw Cometfalls, they do solid damage to the portals, as does Searing Light. Destruct Trogs so they dont get away... Keep your selft DP'd and DF'd while you help beat on portals. and best of all, if you have spell points, BUFF folks for Part 2 BEFORE you shrine yourself.....

[Eurytos]

Yes, bards can cast Neu Poison
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Neutralize_Poison

Its Easy to recast Prayer. I dont even have Extend On half the time in part 1 on My clerics.

If your Winding up with that many spell points left on your cleric you are i ndeed wasting spell points... Drop a Blade barrier at each portal, Throw Cometfalls, they do solid damage to the portals, as does Searing Light. Destruct Trogs so they dont get away... Keep your selft DP'd and DF'd while you help beat on portals. and best of all, if you have spell points, BUFF folks for Part 2 BEFORE you shrine yourself.....

With 2 clerics casting resists, true seeing and poison to people who need it only, my cleric will finish part 1 with 30% or more SP left. That's after spamming prayer, divine favor, and divine power. Oh, and I use 3 maximized empowered extended blade barriers at the start to get a quick 8+ kills right off the bat to make things go faster. I also use destruct on trogs on the way to portals. There's not much need to buff before shrining for part 2 since you're going to use the trees to get mana back anyway.

Normally in my guild runs we all just shrine first, throw a couple quick buffs then head right in. No need to take the time to buff before shrining.


Soul: More good points, thanks

[Aranticus]

Yes, bards can cast Neu Poison
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Neutralize_Poison

Its Easy to recast Prayer. I dont even have Extend On half the time in part 1 on My clerics.

If your Winding up with that many spell points left on your cleric you are i ndeed wasting spell points... Drop a Blade barrier at each portal, Throw Cometfalls, they do solid damage to the portals, as does Searing Light. Destruct Trogs so they dont get away... Keep your selft DP'd and DF'd while you help beat on portals. and best of all, if you have spell points, BUFF folks for Part 2 BEFORE you shrine yourself.....

thanks for the heads up, i never really carried neu poison on my bard and have yet to change his spells for a long time.

as for prayer, my pally usually finish up all his sp do all those, and if you want the pallys to help out with neu poison, resist, do they have the sp to do the prayers for all portals. clerics have more sp, and with extend less time is needed to recast. thus better than pallys

[jkm]

Yup, it happens. What I try to to do is explain to my tanks what I'm going to do then try to get one tank that I trust and tell him to try to stand in range and on my side of the altar as much as he can. Then I cast my mass heals on that one person. I'll spot heal everyone else also, but I'll always go back to the guy in position for my masses.

i get it even when they are on my side of the portal. i don't get it with my drow bard, just with my halfling cleric. it depends on the run, but sometimes it sticks and i have to run in front of the altar to get rid of it (at which point everyone is yelling at me to get back in the pool). sigh.