High end enhancements for pure classes - Reduce the cost

[artvan_delet]

I would like the devs to consider enhancement development for pure classes. I suggest there be enhancements at levels 15,16,17,18 that are good and only cost 2 or 3 AP, without pre-reqs except level. Several enhancement strings require numerous pre-reqs for pure classes to obtain. To get the really good enhancement, you need to spend 10+ APs. Often this makes sense. However, for some classes, remaining pure makes little sense. My personal opinion: pure fighters, paladins, rogues could use a little top end help. Just a suggestion.

[sigtrent]

I'll just throw in my usualy suggestion.

Get rid of the progressive cost structure on enhancemments. A benefit should have a consistant cost and it makes enhancements more fun at all levels of play instead of only at low levels.

1pt for trivial lines
2pts for moderate ones
3pts for strong lines (stats, 2/4/6 lines etc..)
4 pts for incredibly good stuff like prestige clases abbilities

Progressions in prestige are fine but if youa re getting the same benefit it should have the same cost no matter how many times you took it. Benefits in DDO are linear (mostly), costs should be linear as well.

[SteeleTrueheart]

I'll just throw in my usualy suggestion.

Get rid of the progressive cost structure on enhancemments. A benefit should have a consistant cost and it makes enhancements more fun at all levels of play instead of only at low levels.

1pt for trivial lines
2pts for moderate ones
3pts for strong lines (stats, 2/4/6 lines etc..)
4 pts for incredibly good stuff like prestige clases abbilities

Progressions in prestige are fine but if youa re getting the same benefit it should have the same cost no matter how many times you took it. Benefits in DDO are linear (mostly), costs should be linear as well.

QFT
@ Sig - Do you like the 4/2/2 lines that they have come out with... I am beggining to see the advantages of that pricing system.
(OMG I agreed with Sig.... the universe is about to end!!!)

@ Artvan - Also as I usually say:
If there are good enhancements at 15, 16, 17, 18 etc then all the multiclass (Class1 Level 18/Class2 Level 2) will still get the enhancement eventually.

I prefer the progression lines. (At the right cost... see the quote of Sigtrent above) Especially when they have a high level version of them. I dont mind multiclassers getting powerful enhancements, but I like the fact that pure classes get the most powerful version of those enhancements. It really shows the pure class going specialisation over Multiclass generalisation. I am of the opinion that the most powerful level of a progression line should be at level 19/20 but lower version of them should be available earlier for multiclassers.

[Spell]

maybe if they followed up enhancement lines that haven't seen anything beyond level 8 or 9.
Is there a Spellsinger II? spellsinger I is available at level 6 or there-abouts.
Defender Companions stop at level 8. How about adamantine defenders or fire/acid spewers?
Inscribed Armor stops at level 9. where's that next level so Adamantine builds can get a greater sigil and finally get rid of ASF?

[Lithic]

I doubt they will be rid of the 1/2/3 or 2/4/6 progression. Devs seem to want to make you pay for super-specialization, which makes pretty good sense to me. Its the same reason your stats going from 16-18 take 6 build pts, while going from 8-14 ALSO takes 6 build points at character creation.

The exception right now is the rezzing for paladins using their lay on hands, but thats due to the 2nd and 3rd enhancements being extremely underpowered compared to the first. For 4 action points you get to rez. For 2 more, they get +40% hp on the rez, and for 2 more they get +50% more hp on rez.

[llevenbaxx]

I like the higher costs of the max tier enhancements. I would agree that pureclass should be roughly equal in power to the 1-2 and 1-4 level splash characters, to give these cheap yet powerful type of enhancements at the levels you suggest would make deep MCing(like 10/10, 6/14 etc) even more difficult than it is now. These type of characters in most cases are already behind the power curve, unlike their splash counterparts(imo). Unless they add MC only type enhancments, to make up for the almost complete lack of enhancements synergy between the classes, these type of builds would only be further behind(imo).

Can see where your aiming, just think youre missing the target, so to speak.

[Spectralist]

My personal opinion: pure fighters, paladins, rogues could use a little top end help.

The enhancement system already punishes multiclassers more then enough.

However i would not mind seeing some of the AP costs for higher enhancements decreased. Skill point enhancements for example cost way more then any sane person would pay. But other things, like stat enhancements, should be expensive.

[sigtrent]

QFT
@ Sig - Do you like the 4/2/2 lines that they have come out with... I am beggining to see the advantages of that pricing system.
(OMG I agreed with Sig.... the universe is about to end!!!)

Generaly, A bit more to get the abbility and a bit less to use advance it makes some sense for powers that are totaly new to the character. Enhancemetns that give you more of what you already have should not have a "startup cost" in my opinion. Also if you have a line but different line items do different things, I'm fine with cost advances.

I just don't see a good rationale for the tiered pricing of similar bonuses. It's only real purpose is to drive people to avoid min-maxing and spread out their enhancments, and it has the side effect of rewarding some multi class builds. It isn't a terrible system it just doesn't make all that much sense. It doesn't actualy stop min maxing, it just makes those that choose it more min-maxish. And honestly I don't think DDO rewards min max beyond a certain threshhold at which point you just cripple X to get a tiny fraction more of Y which you were already staggeringly good at.

[Coldin]

Defender Companions stop at level 8. How about adamantine defenders or fire/acid spewers?

I direct your attention here.

[sigtrent]

The enhancement system already punishes multiclassers more then enough..

Not really. At least not the way it is now. I make build, lots of them. I probably spend more time analyzing the game rules and making builds than I've actualy played the game as of late. The enhancement system rewards multi classed characters more than it hurts them. Many multi classed characters do so purely to get access to enhancements their main class can not take. The top 6 levels of most classes offer almost no usefull enhancments presently as where the first 6 have all kinds of goodies. The best bang for your buck on enhancments are always the low level ones. I only ever take the most powerful enhancments up to their full ranks on my builds because most of the time it just isn't worth it to take the last rank or two.

Not stacking enhancements between classes is a result of the progressive cost system by the way. If you think about it, it would mean anyone wanting to maximize stats would be forced to multi class to do it because enhancemetns are cheaper and faster to advance at lower levels. Think it through to its logical conclusions and you will see what I mean. Right now a Rogue can get +3 dex at level 16. If they stacked a Rogue 10, Ranger 6 could have +5. The multi class build can already get the same dex as pure and have more cheap enhancemetns to grab. There is nothing for a rogue 10+ other than prestige enhancements in the current system that any builder is likely to take. Make the lines stack and it only gets worse for the pure classes.

However i would not mind seeing some of the AP costs for higher enhancements decreased. Skill point enhancements for example cost way more then any sane person would pay. But other things, like stat enhancements, should be expensive.

Flattening the progression wouldn't need to change the overall costs though. If stats were 4pts an advance a full line would still be 12 etc... Personaly I think 3 would be a better cost for stats but its not a big difference.