The Truth about Bastard Sword vs. Khopesh

[Sinj]

I've seen a lot of debate over the weakness of Bastard Swords, so I did some quick research. Here's what I've found. I used the Damage Calculator at:

http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/...ac=10&maxac=50

Results (Assuming the developer of the damage tool passed first year college statistics):

1. Bastard Swords from an average DPS perspective are roughly equal to Khopesh's before the Improved Critical feat against mobs with a decent AC.

2. Khopesh's only have a slight advantage after the Improved Critical feat ~ 2 DPS better.

My thoughts:

1. Khopesh's are only slightly stronger, however are much more difficult to collect due to their popularity.
2. There are no Green Steel Bastard Swords currently, so Khopesh's make more sense from this standpoint.
3. There's no reason to have a hate on for Bastard Swords. They are a great weapon and are widely available.

[Impaqt]

Your Chart Actually shows closer to 3 Points Difference....

At 90 Swing per Minute that almost 300 Points More damage...

Over the Course of a Raid Boss Fight liek teh Pit Fiends that Thousands of points of damage....

True, Theres no Reason to hate on Bastard Swords, but the Benefit is defiantly there for Kopeshes....

Istn the Greensteel Kopesh 1d10 as well?

[Sinj]

Hi Impaqt,

I think the chart shows damage per second against AC. The difference in DPS at 40 AC+ is 2 or less (Unless I'm going crazy this morning, which is always a possibility.

60 seconds per minute X 2 DPS = 120 over a minute. I guess it's a debate if that is meaningful. Anything to pull the Pit Fiend down faster is always a plus, you're right!

[Sinj]

Yes, the Green Steel Khopesh is 1d10 I believe. There is no doubt that it's the best one-hander.

[Oreg]

I think it sucks that there are no Bastard Swords or Dwarven Axes in green steel forms given that there are Khopeshes. Considering they are all exotics it was a huge miss by some developer. I have a BS ftr/pally and a twf Daxe Barb and I haven't bothered to craft a single greensteel weapon for either because I am so frustrated with that decision.

Don't even get me started on the no Battleaxe, Handaxe or Greataxe either. It was an extremely poor decision.

[SteeleTrueheart]

Yes the lack of greensteel bastardswords are annoying but I am hoping that the MOD 7 recipes have them included.

[sirgog]

A bastard sword is simply a longsword with a bonus +1 damage (average 5.5 base damage vs. longsword 4.5).

That's a fairer comparison than comparing to a Khopesh, which, against crit-susceptible mobs is the best one-hander in the game, and is the equivalent of a longsword (i.e. 1 damage behind the Bastard Sword) on the few mobs that cannot be critted.

[Angelus_dead]

I've seen a lot of debate over the weakness of Bastard Swords, so I did some quick research. Here's what I've found. I used the Damage Calculator at

If you had added typical factors like Weapon Specialization, Power Attack, Inspire Courage, Favored Enemy, Divine Favor, Critical Rage, Power Rage, or simply a +5 weapon, then the khopesh would have improved more than the bastard sword did.

3. There's no reason to have a hate on for Bastard Swords. They are a great weapon and are widely available.

That is highly inaccurate. Against most monsters a bastard sword is less damaging than a scimitar, which doesn't even cost a feat. Spending a feat to do less damage than a weapon you already know how to use is hardly ever justifiable, and is basically a fair "reason to hate".

[Twerpp]

Bastard swords have higher base damage. Great for PvP, second only to a dwarf wielding a dwarven IMO. Also, they look really cool as they are the biggest one-handers. They are cheap to find great ones on AH as well. Weak arguments for basties, but true.

[anastasius]

"The Truth about Bastard Sword vs. Khopesh"

Well the shocking truth is that the Khopesh's parents were married at the time while the Bastard Sword's parents weren't ... Not so shocking now, but back in the day...

It's the real reason why, even to this day, there is all kinda of bastard sword hatred compared to khopeshes...

[RigorAdar]

If you are gonna spend a feat for an exotic weapon the higher crit range on the khop will allow you to smite, banish, and puncture more. Specialty BS have a terrible crit range so you have a much less chance to get of the effect. since Khop's and BS's both cost a feat to use you are much better off going Khop

Better DMG, effects, same cost of feats = Done Deal

[Blazer]

If you are gonna spend a feat for an exotic weapon the higher crit range on the khop will allow you to smite, banish, and puncture more.

The base crit range on the khopesh and the bastard sword is the same (19-20), the difference lies in the multiplier (x3 vs x2). Also, you can't get banishing* or puncturing on a slashing weapon, so these comparisons are moot. I think what you meant to discuss was the difference in the crit multiplier, for this is where the khopesh shines over the bastard sword.

*Exception being the longsword from the Abbot.

Really, spending a feat on a bastard sword is silly, IMO, unless you are either doing it for a roleplaying reason, or you plan on getting a greensteel bastard sword (2d8 base damage). Otherwise, the bastard sword is just barely better than a longsword (1d10 vs 1d8, both 19-20, both x2).

[Noctus]

A Kopesh has better stats. It is plainly better in terms of DPS against crittable mobs.

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But therer are certain conditions which could lead a charcter to prefer Bastard Swords over Kopeshs. Its the Metagame and players who havent millions of Gold in the bank.

Example with fictive numbers:
A Über-Kopesh of Greater Something-bane will cost you 7 Million buyout in the AH, while the exactly same weapon properties on a Bastard Sword will only cost you 1 Million.

Or in the revers if you spend 5 Million to buy your dream weapon, as a Kopesh the sought-afther properties will be found on a +1 bonus. While the properties on a Bastard Sword will come with a +3 Bonus.


If you factor this in in your calculations there will be situations in which some players (mostly casuals and poorer players) will be better of if taking EWP (Bastard Sword) then Kopesh.

[frugal_gourmet]

Curious. How does the bastard sword stack up against the Khopesh against critical-immune opponents?