Necromancer

[arcticwolf666]

I am in need of dire help. Necromancers are a pain in the arse to play. I know they can be sweet builds, but the build is just not going the way I want. I have spells for now, since he is only a 6, to help him out in solo if needed, but I would really like to get some pointers on building a necromancer. Can I get some advice? I have a 16 nuker wizzy which I love, but wanted something new. Can't remember stats off hand, will get them when I get home and edit this post, but for now...

Human Male

Feats: Mental toughness, spell penetration, greater spell penetration (going to swap for a necro feat when I get home also), extend spell

Level: 6

Spells:
1) Chill touch, charm person, hypnotism, ray of enfeeblement
2) scorching ray, ghoul touch
3) haste (because I have to have it lol. Halt undead is next on list)

trying to stay with necro spells but am also working on soloist until he gets up there in levels. Then start the spell swapping.

Thank you for your help


EDIT: Str 10
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 21
Stats are as of current lvl 6. Feat exchanged for necromancy

Any advice on building him better would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much

[Oxvon]

A guildy of mine made a necromancer, def. not the norm but looked fun to play sometimes. Might be hard to do solo stuff at a lower level because lack of damaging spells. BUT in a party you make all the difference, forget what your spell list looks like, but most of the necro spells are debufs(blindness, ghoul touch, ect.). Even though your main focus is necromancy, I think(don't have to listen to me ) that you should have just a couple dps spells at least firewall or something(when you get to that level). Feat wise I would take both necro focus, both spell pen, heighten, extend, and whatever else you want. To me the spell point feat is kinda a waste on a sorc, because you already have a **** load of spell points. Maybe as lower level its fine to have it, but def. think about switching it out at higher levels.

Hope my ramblings make since and help you out a bit.

[arcticwolf666]

A guildy of mine made a necromancer, def. not the norm but looked fun to play sometimes. Might be hard to do solo stuff at a lower level because lack of damaging spells. BUT in a party you make all the difference, forget what your spell list looks like, but most of the necro spells are debufs(blindness, ghoul touch, ect.). Even though your main focus is necromancy, I think(don't have to listen to me ) that you should have just a couple dps spells at least firewall or something(when you get to that level). Feat wise I would take both necro focus, both spell pen, heighten, extend, and whatever else you want. To me the spell point feat is kinda a waste on a sorc, because you already have a **** load of spell points. Maybe as lower level its fine to have it, but def. think about switching it out at higher levels.

Hope my ramblings make since and help you out a bit.

Definitely helps out. Thought I was going to have to keep on my own. Everything you say makes perfect sense, as of now he is still a 6, and definitely has some kind of dps spells. Going to keep the feats you mentioned in mind as I progress. I can see how more mana as a necro is kind of useless. Thank you very much for the response

[Aesop]

DPS spells (Firewall and Probably CoC would be first suggestion perhaps Chain Lightning as well) Blur and Haste

other than that I'd say go for it

for Low level Damage you could go with Chill Touch (Necro Spell d6 per level 5 cap fort save or strength damage
Ray of Enfeeblement'
Ray of Exhaustion
Enervation
Curse
even Burning Blood is ok
Symbol of ...
Pain
Weakness
Fear and
Death (this ones kinda off I think)
Waves of Fatigue and Exhaustion
Contagion
Halt Undead
Command/Control Undead
Fear (great spell btw)
False Life

but still at high levels you get the big middle finger

Finger of Death

the problem with a lot of these is that you can kill them faster with other spells. Most of the Necro school is either Undead, DoT, or Debuff... That big Middle Finger towards the end of the content though is a major helper

One Problem with DoTs is waiting for them ... because the whole time the Mobs are tryin to kill ya

Another spell you may want that's outside of school is Phantasmal Killer... its just so much fun til you get your FoD... and even then its still fun

Aesop

[arcticwolf666]

DPS spells (Firewall and Probably CoC would be first suggestion perhaps Chain Lightning as well) Blur and Haste

other than that I'd say go for it

for Low level Damage you could go with Chill Touch (Necro Spell d6 per level 5 cap fort save or strength damage
Ray of Enfeeblement'
Ray of Exhaustion
Enervation
Curse
even Burning Blood is ok
Symbol of ...
Pain
Weakness
Fear and
Death (this ones kinda off I think)
Waves of Fatigue and Exhaustion
Contagion
Halt Undead
Command/Control Undead
Fear (great spell btw)
False Life

but still at high levels you get the big middle finger

Finger of Death

the problem with a lot of these is that you can kill them faster with other spells. Most of the Necro school is either Undead, DoT, or Debuff... That big Middle Finger towards the end of the content though is a major helper

One Problem with DoTs is waiting for them ... because the whole time the Mobs are tryin to kill ya

Another spell you may want that's outside of school is Phantasmal Killer... its just so much fun til you get your FoD... and even then its still fun

Aesop

I never understood or even used command /control undead. Aren't both of those charming type (aka charm monster etc)spells? I will not be getting symbol of death lol. tried that with my wizzy and hated it. Bezekira maybe Don't know yet, have a long ways to go lol. Pk and FOD are definitely on my list, as well as most if not all of the ones you mentioned. I am definitely keeping a couple nuke types just in case also. Thank you very much for your help. Sucks I can't play til tomorrow night now lol (retcher fretcher)

[Atax]

I see you took both spell pens pretty early on.. You know, nothing has SR until you get to the desert/Tempest Spine (Bout lv8+), and even then its a bit scarce.. it only starts REALLY showing up 12+.

I don't want to say waste a shard right away because I dont know how fast you'll level up, but maybe grabbing heighten (since many, many necro spells rely on DCs) would be a good idea.

Also, man, its very, VERY true that mental toughness is a waste of a feat. Assuming your sorc of ANY kind has 6 feats normally (without being human), the top choices for feats are: Extend, Heighten, Maximize, Empower[taken only after max], Quicken, Spell pen, Greater spell pen, Spell Focus, Greater spell focus

With Necromancy, though I've never played one.. I would assume you'd want something like... Extend, Heighten, Spell Focus: Necromancy, Spell Pen, Greater spell pen.. and the last one could be anything you like. Greater spell focus? Quicken? Maximize, if you took some damage spells?

Hell, you might even be able to drop extend at 10+, since your buffs last forever at that rate anyways. I'm considering it, and I carry blur/stoneskin/haste/resist/pro energy

[arcticwolf666]

I see you took both spell pens pretty early on.. You know, nothing has SR until you get to the desert/Tempest Spine (Bout lv8+), and even then its a bit scarce.. it only starts REALLY showing up 12+.

I don't want to say waste a shard right away because I dont know how fast you'll level up, but maybe grabbing heighten (since many, many necro spells rely on DCs) would be a good idea.

Also, man, its very, VERY true that mental toughness is a waste of a feat. Assuming your sorc of ANY kind has 6 feats normally (without being human), the top choices for feats are: Extend, Heighten, Maximize, Empower[taken only after max], Quicken, Spell pen, Greater spell pen, Spell Focus, Greater spell focus

With Necromancy, though I've never played one.. I would assume you'd want something like... Extend, Heighten, Spell Focus: Necromancy, Spell Pen, Greater spell pen.. and the last one could be anything you like. Greater spell focus? Quicken? Maximize, if you took some damage spells?

Hell, you might even be able to drop extend at 10+, since your buffs last forever at that rate anyways. I'm considering it, and I carry blur/stoneskin/haste/resist/pro energy

I already dropped grtr spel pen and picked up spell focus necromancy. With MT I run out of mana, even with 600+ lol. Just need to work on mana use. Thanks The reason I would keep extend though is for haste. I love haste lol

[Atax]

Yeah, Im wary about dropping extend also.. but my nonextended hastes last 1:18 at the moment.. which is long enough for me.

Also, your mana will run out if you spam single-target spells.. if you use area spells wisely, you'll be fine. I understand necromancy school has lots of single-target spells, though, but MT won't fix the issue by itself. Not like the feat gives 100 mana

[Aesop]

I already dropped grtr spel pen and picked up spell focus necromancy. With MT I run out of mana, even with 600+ lol. Just need to work on mana use. Thanks The reason I would keep extend though is for haste. I love haste lol

Extend is also nice for firewall... just nice. On a Wizard I like it for those 2 min Acid Fogs... but then I just kinda like Acid Fog

Aesop

[arcticwolf666]

Extend is also nice for firewall... just nice. On a Wizard I like it for those 2 min Acid Fogs... but then I just kinda like Acid Fog

Aesop

FW is good, but extended is just too much until higher levels anyways To me, Acid Fog is just too gimped for what it should be at the level it is. Nice for the extra dmg yes, but far too gimped lol. Thanx Aesop

[skraus1]

My main was a primary enchanter and necromancer since shortly after launch. I dropped the enchantment specialty completely and moved over to necromancy. It is a viable concept as long as you get the basic scorching ray, firewall, blur, resist, haste value pack of essential sorcing tools. Outside of that, it is very viable concept after level 7ish. You won't feel like a necromancer ddo style until later however.

Necro has 3 GREAT spells: fear, enervation and the FoD. Two of them require saves and the other lowers saves, so it's a great combination.

Halt undead might be able to be added to the list now that the save has been fixed, but I've played without it for so long I'm not willing/able to try it out again now.

My human sorc works very well and had
Heighten
extend
empower
Max
spell focus necro
greater spell focus necro
Spell pen

Extended fear is a fight ender with this set up, even in elite vale quests. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. As such I use it as a panic button because it clears rooms FAST and lasts for minutes (4?) at a time. I've saved many a party that way. Because of its length, it can be used in many situations as a stand in for flesh to stone.

I carry 3 other necro debuffs, but I use them only for raids where I can't or shouldn't dps things into the ground.

[Electric_Pulses]

sure if you go wizard u will lose some management but u can afford totake mental toughness and improved mental toughness, along with maxed out into and a tier 3 management item from shroud management should not be a problem. when you go wizard you will have all the feats u need. spell pen, greaater spell pen, necromancy, greater necromancy, extend, heighten, quicken, maximize, enlarge, mental toughness, improved mental toughness, and empower. that way if needed you can just change spells in case nercomancy doesnt work well in a quest u r bout to do.

[skraus1]

that way if needed you can just change spells in case nercomancy doesnt work well in a quest u r bout to do.

Necromaners ddo style have two gears: dps and necromancy. They work in every quest. There is no need to switch spells for each individual quest. Of course, I'm imagining a build that has about half necromancy spells, which is what the opp is suggesting and is about what a PnP necromancer speced wizzie would probably have.

Lets see......
Undead: necromancy or dps
Living mob: Necromancy or dps
orange mob: Necromancy or dps
red or purple boss: dps and/or necromancy debuffs

With 3 dps spells (scorching, firewall and CoC), you are covered for everything in the game.

[Aesop]

With 3 dps spells (scorching, firewall and CoC), you are covered for everything in the game.

welll not quite but pretty close there are a few mobs resistant to both Ice and fire and a number that are immune to low level spells and cold ... I'd throw either a Chain Lightning or Acid Fog or something in there for emergencies

Aesop

[skraus1]

welll not quite but pretty close there are a few mobs resistant to both Ice and fire and a number that are immune to low level spells and cold ... I'd throw either a Chain Lightning or Acid Fog or something in there for emergencies

Aesop

I forgot to add in disentigrate. Another great spell for those immune things. It is so situational however that I don't really classify it as a dps spell. Blackbones, golems, lich and undead beholders are just about all I use it for.

I have never had chain lightning or acid fog for more than 3 days before I switched them out. I never have missed them either, even in vale elite, due to a wicked FoD DC. Enervation+FOD will kill most everything to be afraid of quickly if you have decent spell pen.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

My main was a primary enchanter and necromancer since shortly after launch. I dropped the enchantment specialty completely and moved over to necromancy. It is a viable concept as long as you get the basic scorching ray, firewall, blur, resist, haste value pack of essential sorcing tools. Outside of that, it is very viable concept after level 7ish. You won't feel like a necromancer ddo style until later however.

Necro has 3 GREAT spells: fear, enervation and the FoD. Two of them require saves and the other lowers saves, so it's a great combination.

Halt undead might be able to be added to the list now that the save has been fixed, but I've played without it for so long I'm not willing/able to try it out again now.

My human sorc works very well and had
Heighten
extend
empower
Max
spell focus necro
greater spell focus necro
Spell pen

Extended fear is a fight ender with this set up, even in elite vale quests. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. As such I use it as a panic button because it clears rooms FAST and lasts for minutes (4?) at a time. I've saved many a party that way. Because of its length, it can be used in many situations as a stand in for flesh to stone.

I carry 3 other necro debuffs, but I use them only for raids where I can't or shouldn't dps things into the ground.

Halt undead is a nice spell.
Only problem is that after a certain lvl all undead are considered intelligent.
On Intelligent undead it acks like Hypno.....stopping them until they take damage.

And just like Hypno, you party is guaranteed to immediately damage all the undead you just halted.... Thus maiking this great spell useless most of the time.

[arcticwolf666]

Halt undead is a nice spell.
Only problem is that after a certain lvl all undead are considered intelligent.
On Intelligent undead it acks like Hypno.....stopping them until they take damage.

And just like Hypno, you party is guaranteed to immediately damage all the undead you just halted.... Thus maiking this great spell useless most of the time.

Even in VON 5 Halt Undead works wonders. My wizzie always has that one loaded. Always had luck with it lol. It also stay active for a time period, not deactivated until hit. I have never seen it work that way, unless I haven't paid attention, will next time I get to play though. I will also have dps type spells loaded, but mainly focused on necromancy. Bestow curse+Enervation+FOD= major fun lmao. Will work more on build, thank you very much for the advice

[CSFurious]

is better as a previous poster stated

the extra feats & spell-changing will make you a happier necromancer at the end of the day

[MrWizard]

heighten

[arcticwolf666]

is better as a previous poster stated

the extra feats & spell-changing will make you a happier necromancer at the end of the day

Don't get me wrong, I came very close to wizzy because of that lol. I just wanted to try out sorc necro since I screwed my sorc nuker a long time ago lmao. leveled to 13 but took 1 wizard instead of 13 sorc. Man I was Po'd lol. I was so tired since it was after a very long quest and past midnight lol. Oh well, I do like the wizzy for the spell swap option, but I love the sorc. I at least know what dps I can utilize to be effective in almost every quest, so playing a wizzy to cap was a good experience. I have an idea but I was not completely content with my knowledge base of cassters yet (IRT making a necromancer that can be effective in all levels). he is definitely on the fun side of playing though lol. Especially when you get a good grp together. Thanx

I am going to attempt another sorc nuker pretty soon. I love the caster class. Just need to study the compendium and spell schools a little more and write out how to do it before the attempt. Hopefully I can make a hell of a nuker like some I read about in other threads (doing 1000+ dmg) I never even come close to that. Only one time i have ever seen a number that high and it was a heal crit from my cleric lol. ONCE!!!!! lol