360 days to get a tome set

[Borror0]

I expected better of a perma death player.

Honeslty, reboubt... you're asking too much there.

[Solmage]

Well, I don't think it would be out of line to ask for the full loot possibilities to appear on the 20th (and 40th and 60th, etc) run, so that you are always guaranteed something nice, and to help out the more casual players who chances are will only get 20th after a year or two of playing. But some people seem to enjoy wanting to run say the titan 60 times to get the belt they never get, so, whatever.

Not exactly a high priority issue, but I personally wouldn't mind seeing it down the line.

(Note: I'm against the idea that the code check which tomes you have, that's seriously wasted effort, but the same can be achieved by having the entire possible loot table appear, allowing you to choose whichever tome or raid item you wanted. This COULD be restricted to the more challenging or laborious raids too, if deemed necessary)

[Lifespawn]

complaining you got too many tomes ****es me off

I just did my 80th on my sorc last night and in 80 runs on that 1 char have never seen a +3 tome drop for anyone in the chest or had 1 offered as a 20th reward.

I have 6 other chars that are all over 40 runs and 1 thats at 19 and guess what NEVER gotten a +3 tome not just 1 i didn't need never gotten 1 period.

Quick and easy math is lowballing 339 runs with not a single +3 tome unlucky maybe but my luck is like that on all my chars while ppl all around me pull good stuff regularly.

Granted i pull 2 great things a year and no i'm not embelishing i get 2 unlucky goes out the window when i've run shroud and everything in the vale on elite too many times to count and only ever pulled 1 +2 tome while guildies and friends pull atleast 2 a week.

I'm not saying anything other than maybe there is something the devs don't know about that affects certain accounts loot pulls most are middle of the road some are lucky all the time and some like me get Screwed.

So even tho i went on a tangent be happy you've gotten offered +3 tomes as i'm over 340 runs and counting with none.

[redoubt]

complaining you got too many tomes ****es me off

I just did my 80th on my sorc last night and in 80 runs on that 1 char have never seen a +3 tome drop for anyone in the chest or had 1 offered as a 20th reward.

I have 6 other chars that are all over 40 runs and 1 thats at 19 and guess what NEVER gotten a +3 tome not just 1 i didn't need never gotten 1 period.

Quick and easy math is lowballing 339 runs with not a single +3 tome unlucky maybe but my luck is like that on all my chars while ppl all around me pull good stuff regularly.

Granted i pull 2 great things a year and no i'm not embelishing i get 2 unlucky goes out the window when i've run shroud and everything in the vale on elite too many times to count and only ever pulled 1 +2 tome while guildies and friends pull atleast 2 a week.

I'm not saying anything other than maybe there is something the devs don't know about that affects certain accounts loot pulls most are middle of the road some are lucky all the time and some like me get Screwed.

So even tho i went on a tangent be happy you've gotten offered +3 tomes as i'm over 340 runs and counting with none.

How about instead of complaining about it, we discuss a way to improve it???

I don't think its right that you've run the reaver that many times and not gotten a single tome. So, instead of yelling at each other, why don't we work together and present a good argument to the devs for a better solution???

Someone else in this thread mentioned putting the full raid list in on the 20th interation completions. This has been mentioned before and I would support this. Might even be a better solution than simply checking for redunancy of items.

[Borror0]

Want a good argument against?

It widens the gap between someone who plays a lot, or not. That's bad. The Shroud started it, let's not push it further. It's bad for the game, rather than good.

[redoubt]

Want a good argument against?

It widens the gap between someone who plays a lot, or not. That's bad. The Shroud started it, let's not push it further. It's bad for the game, rather than good.

Thanks for presenting a rational argument.

I both agree and disagree. The shroud weapons are, for the most part, the best in the game. But you can get non-shroud weapons that are nearly as good and sometimes better. Power 5 do not come on greensteel either.

Someone could run the shroud 20 times and be guaranteed a +3 tome. That's about 40 hours of playing (group build and actual run. Assumes no failures.) Or someone could run the reaver 20 times and maybe get a +3 tome. That is more like 15 hours of playing (30minutes to form and 15 minutes to run.)

I could argue that better tome drops from the reaver would help the person who plays less by allowing them to get +3 tomes in a time frame easier for them to accomodate. Power gamers will run both every three days regardless.

I would also argue that for folks who don't play as much a single +3 tome could make a big impact on their character. To a powergamer, that impact is most likely less. Even more so as you get into having more than one of them. How much impact is that theoretical 5th and 6th tome (cha and int) going to make to a 16 barb??? Heck my bard doesn't even bother wearing an int item much less using an int tome.

I've begun to ramble a bit, so I'll sign out for a bit again.

[QuantumFX]

To answer the question "What does a player do when they get all the raid loot they want from a raid?'

Speaking from experience here: They either start running alts through it more often or run it to have fun by helping out others. My main never has to run Twilight Forge again. Now I have more free time to get stuff for my other characters.

If I were to offer my opinion on how to improve the system:
Offer up a full list of items (including tomes) at first time completion of each difficulty level and at base quest level number of completions. (ex. VoN every 10 completions, TF and DQ every 12 completions, Reaver and Abbot every 14 completions, Shroud every 16 completions.) I feel this would be more friendly to casual players and permadeath players while giving the powergamers their treadmill.

[query]

Now suck it up and remember many of us have NEVER gotten a +3 tome from there and I never even pulled a +2 or +1 tome from there.


As for a full raid loot option, that I would consider.


But complaining you get too good stuff you never can use is a trigger for anger by many. Best you say you repeat getting the same end rewards next time...and no, I do NOT support it monitoring and selecting new tomes for you unless tomes are GUARANTEED on 20 runs....which I do not know it that's a good idea with the randomness of the draw still impremented as raid rewards go.

[Blind_Skwerl]

There are +3 tomes in this game?!!!

Well over 100 runs on the reaver between all my characters. Total tomes recieved in reaver runs: 2 (both +1's).

[Lifespawn]

i don't like the idea of +3 tomes being a guarentee...but keeping every 20 the way it is and making every 40th a complete list would take a significant ammount of time invested and no easy task to get a tomeset.

i'd be fine with it don't think the devs care tho so we can discuss and come to some agreeable solution and the devs will not pipe in atall and the thread will just eventually die and we'll keep grinding till some1 else gets tired of no tomes then we'll see another thread rinse and repeat.

how depressing is that have a nice day

[baddax]

Easy solution. Run the shroud! Pull your ingredients and MAKE what you want. As long as you have right ingredients and mix them correctly from what i hear its a pretty reliable way of getting the right loot all the time. Also the ingredients are transferrable which make it nice for Alt chrs who need that one or 2 ingredients that your main has.

[Borror0]

I both agree and disagree. The shroud weapons are, for the most part, the best in the game. But you can get non-shroud weapons that are nearly as good and sometimes better. Power 5 do not come on greensteel either.

+4 Insight AC only comes on Greensteel though.
+150 SPs, +6 UMD only comes on Greensteel though.

It's a big gap, mostly the AC one... 20% difference is a lot.
+6 UMD is a big one too... 30%...

I could argue that better tome drops from the reaver would help the person who plays less by allowing them to get +3 tomes in a time frame easier for them to accomodate. Power gamers will run both every three days regardless.

The argument is that a new player will be totally behind someone who has ran the Shroud for 360 days. I know that running the Shroud every 2 days and 18 hours, for 360 days, is lot of time. But it's not like if ya didn't have any reward out of it. You know, loot and ingrediants?

Heck my bard doesn't even bother wearing an int item much less using an int tome.

You don't want extra skill points?!

[Lifespawn]

Easy solution. Run the shroud! Pull your ingredients and MAKE what you want. As long as you have right ingredients and mix them correctly from what i hear its a pretty reliable way of getting the right loot all the time. Also the ingredients are transferrable which make it nice for Alt chrs who need that one or 2 ingredients that your main has.

you obviously didn't read the threads it's about tomes u can't craft tomes

[redoubt]

+4 Insight AC only comes on Greensteel though.
+150 SPs, +6 UMD only comes on Greensteel though.

It's a big gap, mostly the AC one... 20% difference is a lot.
+6 UMD is a big one too... 30%...

These are absolutely significant. But I think your numbers are a bit high. How did you calculate those percentages?


The argument is that a new player will be totally behind someone who has ran the Shroud for 360 days. I know that running the Shroud every 2 days and 18 hours, for 360 days, is lot of time. But it's not like if ya didn't have any reward out of it. You know, loot and ingrediants?

A new player is behind someone who just capped their first level 16 character. Until new content stops and new items stop, there will always be a gap.


You don't want extra skill points?!

Sure they'd be great, but I don't have an INT tome for him. But that's okay... I figure if I complain about it I'll need more nomex.

Thanks again for keeping the dicussion civil.

[Borror0]

These are absolutely significant. But I think your numbers are a bit high. How did you calculate those percentages?

I don't know what you think it represents to you... but +4 AC is 20% less hits. +6 to UMD is 30% more success.

You know, it's a d20 system.

A new player is behind someone who just capped their first level 16 character. Until new content stops and new items stop, there will always be a gap.

It's not because it exists that we should let it get any bigger.

Thanks again for keeping the dicussion civil.

No problem.

[redoubt]

Now suck it up and remember many of us have NEVER gotten a +3 tome from there and I never even pulled a +2 or +1 tome from there.


As for a full raid loot option, that I would consider.


But complaining you get too good stuff you never can use is a trigger for anger by many. Best you say you repeat getting the same end rewards next time...and no, I do NOT support it monitoring and selecting new tomes for you unless tomes are GUARANTEED on 20 runs....which I do not know it that's a good idea with the randomness of the draw still impremented as raid rewards go.

I am not seeking to raise anger in anyone. I am pointing out the current game mechanic.

Several people have agreed with your point of guaranteed list at the 20th iterations. This seems to be a popular option.

As far as running and not getting loot... many of us are still running characters that are 2 years old. I don't think it is unrealistic for a character that is played everyday for 2 years to have some pretty good loot. (I only play 3 characters these days... got bored with the others.) I like many have well over 100 reaver runs, 50+ demon queens, a dozen or so dragons, can't keep up with the shroud number but probably two dozen completions plus lots of 1-3/4 runs. Admitadlly, I skipped the abbot. I've learned to lead all but the abott so that I can run them as often as possible and not have to wait for someone else to start the group. Now, this sounds like a lot, but there are a ton of people on my server and on these forums that have run a lot more, play more hours and have a lot more nice stuff. I'm prolly only around the 75 percentile and I play 25+ hours a week.

Another example (might have been Shade) was that he ran the titan 80 times (I think it was 80) and is still going back looking for a belt.

Maybe you play more, maybe you play less. But why go with the "suck it up" attitude? Don't you want it to be better???

[redoubt]

I don't know what you think it represents to you... but +4 AC is 20% less hits. +6 to UMD is 30% more success.

You know, it's a d20 system.

Oh. sure. I was thinking that on my ranger with 50+ AC four more AC is less than 10% improvement. But you also have a valid way to look at it there.

.

[Borror0]

Oh. sure. I was thinking that on my ranger with 50+ AC four more AC is less than 10% improvement. But you also have a valid way to look at it there.

Of course, I,ll say it that way "up to", happy?

[Borror0]

But why go with the "suck it up" attitude? Don't you want it to be better???

Honestly, Redoubt, it comes from most peopel of never having ate a +3 tome in their whole life. So, even if you end up with one you already at your 20th reward, most people will not feel sorry for you. I think most people will agree on a list-'em-all end reward, but making sure you'll get a tome you haven't got is a whole other thing. Like I said, it'll only widen the gap between those who raid a lot, and those who don't.

Personally, I'd like the 20th end reward to list all of the raid loot possible, but tomes. As for tomes, keep the chance of one poping the same as it currently is. So, that will result in less peopel running the dragon 60th or 80th for the boots and not getting it... but won't increase the numbers of tomes in-game. Simply put, this will reduce the need to run a raid more than 20 times for an item, but if you really want the tomes; well your chances to are neither higher nor lower.

[Emili]

So are you saying you like getting getting nothing on all those runs? Or just saying "since I got screwed, I want everyone else to be equally screwed"? Now, I doubt that is what you mean, but that is what it sounds like.

And yes, I too have run many a reaver. My sorc had to go all the way to run 60 to get his first tome. By the way, that takes 6 months if you run it every three days. No I am not quiting over it. Sure you could call it complaining, but really I just think there is a better way.

I know that the current system is luck of the draw. I get it.

I am proposing a change here in the development discussion forum. Please provide constructive reasoned responses as to why you think what I proposed is a good idea or a bad idea. Or maybe provide a whole new idea to improve the loot distribution system.

No I'm saying guarenteed loot in tomes - what you want - is not the answer to it...