Gather round! Lets talk about exploits!

[Quarion]

Hello all!
I just wanted to take a moment and let you guys know, how much we appreciate your patience and cooperation in the past few weeks. When it comes to dealing with, how to report, and discussing exploits, it can be tough to know how to properly handle the situation.

We've also heard about many frustrations with the rules regarding exploits and how we handle them as a community.

After careful review, I also felt that we could definately benefit from a more productive policy, and the many parties involved have reviewed and settled upon what we feel would be a better way to handle exploits.

Many of you will remember Kommunity Kobold. He's been away for quite a while, but I'd like to reintroduce him to you.


No no! Wait, where are you all going? Come back! I swear he wont bite this time!

[Kommunity_Kobold]

Yark! Hallo!
/Waves sheepishly

[Quarion]

Going forward, if you have any sensitive concerns regarding exploits, Kommunity Kobold will be here to listen! He's our new resident Exploit Expert, and I'll let him have the floor to explain what's happening with our exploit policy.

[Kommunity_Kobold]

Yark! So, hello again! It is good be back!
In future, GENERAL discussion of exploits will no longer be taboo subject. However detailing the steps or other significant details of an exploit will continue to be off limits. Me will be much happy to help when it comes to exploit question.

If you need to ask question, direct it to me, and I will do me best to answer your question, including whether a particular behavior is or is not considered an offense.

Me be clear though, we will still not allow detail talk about how to exploit on the forum. No don't do it! Yark! Be sure to PM me the question if you must share explicit detail!

Please also do not report exploiters on forums. The proper place to report exploiters is in-game using the "?" button.

We also not like it when players put things like "No exploiting" or other exploit related comment in LFM panel. Doing so is no no and will be noticed!

Also, me want to warn those who think it ok to be exploit everything. As part of new policy, if you caught doing something we say not okay, we be more strict when looking for you! We ban from game for taking bad advantage! We also bring out the torture device and branding irons and....

[Quarion]

Whooooah whoa... Hold on there KK, no, we're not going to go that far, but what we're saying is that exploits are bad, we'll let you know what's an exploit when we can and if you participate in those activities, expect to hear from Mr. Vicious Kobold over there.

Also, we do want to fix the exploits as fast as possible, because we don't like them either. We encourage you to report what you know, but do so appropriately, which is usually directly to Kommunity Kobold, or better yet, using the "Report Bug" link at the top of this page.

And just in case there are some of you who have no idea what we're talking about, an exploit is defined as:
"Any purposeful activity which takes advantage of a game bug or defect which returns benefit or quest progress without cost or risk to the player or team."

One good policy to follow is, that if you wonder if the activity you're partaking in is allowed or not, you probably shouldn't be partaking in it, and if you must know, send Mr Kobold a PM!

We hope that this new policy will help to build a better community and improve the way we handle and discuss exploit activity. Now, I'll open the floor to any questions!

Thanks,
Quarion

[Kommunity_Kobold]

And me too.

[Magnyr_Delorn]

We also not like it when players put things like "No exploiting" or other exploit related comment in LFM panel. Doing so is no no and will be noticed!

May I ask why?

[Angelus_dead]

If you need to ask question, direct it to me, and I will do me best to answer your question, including whether a particular behavior is or is not considered an offense.

So there were multiple confusing patches this past week, some of them with vague release notes ("Inattentive monsters"). I wonder if any exploits were fixed recently, so I can go back to doing some perfectly normal and reasonable things which have lately been out-of-bounds because they cause important monsters to go brain dead.

[Dimz]

Was alot of arguement on my server in Shroud. Some "cheesy" tactics which involved Arraetrikos "paralyzed" so to speak. Just wondering if that was considered an exploit or not?

[Mhykke]

KK,

You guys taking a look at the various named weapons from shroud and von1 that should drop on leaving showing up outside those quests?

[Kommunity_Kobold]

May I ask why?

Because we not want to highlight in such a prominent place, which quests/areas have known exploits. We not deny it, but its better to keep it in the DL as much as possible.

[Kommunity_Kobold]

So there were multiple confusing patches this past week, some of them with vague release notes ("Inattentive monsters"). I wonder if any exploits were fixed recently, so I can go back to doing some perfectly normal and reasonable things which have lately been out-of-bounds because they cause important monsters to go brain dead.

Today's patch only fix lag, since it was very troublesome. However, some exploits have been addressed in previous hotfix.

[Kommunity_Kobold]

Was alot of arguement on my server in Shroud. Some "cheesy" tactics which involved Arraetrikos "paralyzed" so to speak. Just wondering if that was considered an exploit or not?

To answer dis question, me need more detail. Please PM me exactly the method you are asking about and I will tell you.

[Kommunity_Kobold]

KK,

You guys taking a look at the various named weapons from shroud and von1 that should drop on leaving showing up outside those quests?

Please PM me details if you have time. Thanks!
-YARK!

[Bronko]

Thank you Q.

It is an excellent move on your part to recognize the need for an open and productive discussion on exploits. The taboo-ness of the subject and the absent avenues for the productive and concerned members of the community to address the issues was frustrating to say the least. Transparency is required to maintain integrity and I applaud you and Turbine for realizing it.

Knowing that KK is there to handle these issues via a PM is very reassuring. I know you say he won't bite, but I think that's just the players. He sounds rather hungry and I expect to see a few Kobald teeth-marks in anything that crosses you desk.

*rubs Ruddy Fungus all over his post to keep it from smelling tasty*

[genericearthling]

Because we not want to highlight in such a prominent place, which quests/areas have known exploits. We not deny it, but its better to keep it in the DL as much as possible.

so what is the correct way to look for players who don't cheat? many bad situations occur when you find out in the middle of a long quest.

[WeaselKing]

May I ask why?

Because we not want to highlight in such a prominent place, which quests/areas have known exploits. We not deny it, but its better to keep it in the DL as much as possible.

Then how do you suggest that we ensure that the PUG we join is not planning on breaking the rules?

I saw an LFM of a quest last night that said "clean run" in the LFM panel. I took this to mean that they were not going to use an exploit that I knew existed in that quest. Would this be an acceptable method to ensure that people joining my LFM aren't planning on doing something that might get my whole group in trouble?

Thank you.

[sigtrent]

A very good change in policy.

I agree that discussing details is bad but the old ban just made it impossible to even address the issue.

[Kommunity_Kobold]

Then how do you suggest that we ensure that the PUG we join is not planning on breaking the rules?

I saw an LFM of a quest last night that said "clean run" in the LFM panel. I took this to mean that they were not going to use an exploit that I knew existed in that quest. Would this be an acceptable method to ensure that people joining my LFM aren't planning on doing something that might get my whole group in trouble?

Thank you.

Here is what we suggest:

Should you join a group that wants to use questionable methods to complete the quest, you should politely inform them that you don't break rules and drop the group. If you're feeling ambitious, we would appreciate a report to Customer Service that they are exploiting. (The sooner this report comes in, the better.)

If you take on someone who asks if the group will partake in such activities, you should inform them then that you will not be exploiting, and that it is against the rules to do so. The player will then either drop group themselves, or argue. If they argue, me say that you kick them from the group, politely.

I would avoid posting anything, anywhere that indicates that a quest can be exploited.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

If you need to ask question, direct it to me, and I will do me best to answer your question, including whether a particular behavior is or is not considered an offense.

Thank you And to think, I earned 4 points for suggesting just that to the Cube...I think I like you better

Me be clear though, we will still not allow detail talk about how to exploit on the forum.

Very reasonable.

We also not like it when players put things like "No exploiting" or other exploit related comment in LFM panel. Doing so is no no and will be noticed!.

I don't understand that KK. For example, if in quest X you can make monster Y bug out by twirling around in circles and you know many ppl use the twirl technique, what's wrong with upfront saying "my group doesn't approve of that kinda thing". I can understand you prohibitting "no twirling" in the LFM, but what's wrong with the generic "please don't join us and expect to cheat" which is all they are really doing?

Should you join a group that wants to use questionable methods to complete the quest, you should politely inform them that you don't break rules and drop the group. If you're feeling ambitious, we would appreciate a report to Customer Service that they are exploiting. (The sooner this report comes in, the better.)

Except that having spent 45 minutes or an hour in a raid you don't really want to drop in the last 30 seconds....