A proposed change to barb crit rage

[Missing_Minds]

As has been started many, many times in other threads, the ability for an enraged, frenzied barbarian to maintain the accuracy to crit more often is completely ludicrous. A barbarian can accurately find the weaknesses in an enemies defenses and thereby score more critical hits??? While raged??? I don't think so.

Oh I agree with you on this. However.... If I'm hitting you 10x harder, do you think accuracy of finding those little chinks in your armor is really going to matter a whole lot? I'm going to hit you and you are going to feel it.
Also barbarians, aka berzerkers fight normally in an un thinking random style. A season veteran who is used to formality and training can be taken aback by this shere randomness and unwittingly leave openings when normally there would be none.

Note, I'm not advocating for or against the current implementation. I'm just giving you another way to look at it. Either way, raging should increase damage (which it does). Remove the current crit enhancement and you have to replace it with something else. (I currently doubt they'll take it away, unlike evasion in full plate that I knew they would.)

Lessening the time on exhaustion is not the way to go as eventually barbs will get tireless rage.
Improving the crit range has been shown as unbalancing. Well.. the op is suggesting to increase the crit multiplier instead. Apparently the tech has been added for this if I've read the dev notes correctly.

However, There is another suggestion. Change the while raging stat enhancements. Instead of just a +1 str/con bonus, you could always make them go up by +2 per increment instead at the same cost. While powerful, it is not as over powering as the crit range is. Just another idea to toss into the fire.

[Strumpoo]

Banishers and smiters are worthless on hard and elite, crit rage doesn't effect them there, so they aren't overpowering once the difficulty goes up.

The Wounding/Puncturing combo is powerful, but it is powerful in any classes' hands, NOT JUST BARBS! And they are THE RAREST weapon combo in the game, BY FAR! If we are "balancing" the game for some piece of uber loot, then we are making a huge mistake.

[Illuminati]

It's logical that a normal blow to your arm would only cause a small wound, whereas a super strong blow would crush your arm, sever an artery and break your ribs... Critical Hit!!!

Perfectly logical to me.

Cracks me up when I see math majors (Cornell FTW!) spout averages and how rolling a 19/20 happen as they should. Now, if the mob would live through 1000 attacks to realize this average, that would be something.

[krud]

It's logical that a normal blow to your arm would only cause a small wound, whereas a super strong blow would crush your arm, sever an artery and break your ribs... Critical Hit!!!

Perfectly logical to me.


Cracks me up when I see math majors (Cornell FTW!) spout averages and how rolling a 19/20 happen as they should. Now, if the mob would live through 1000 attacks to realize this average, that would be something.

sure it's logical, hence the increase to dps. All the other effects don't fit, especially when considering pointy, poking weapons and finding the sweet spot more often.

[Illuminati]

sure it's logical, hence the increase to dps. All the other effects don't fit, especially when considering pointy, poking weapons and finding the sweet spot more often.

Agreed and there is a solution, modify Barbs crit to not include them...

"Barbs Critical Rage 1: This effect adds +1 Critical threat range to the damage type and burst effects of a weapon. Note: This does not effect critical effects such as Banishing, Puncturing and Smiting.

[krud]

Agreed and there is a solution, modify Barbs crit to not include them...

"Barbs Critical Rage 1: This effect adds +1 Critical threat range to the damage type and burst effects of a weapon. Note: This does not effect critical effects such as Banishing, Puncturing and Smiting.

And that would also be an acceptable solution. See, when you debate some good solutions emerge. I'm not sure this would be any more coding than the other one, but still a good alternative to the current implementation.

[TommyBoy]

                     x damage
          Gsword       Gaxe       rapier
roll     old  new    old   new    old   new
10        1     1     1     1     1     1
11        1     1     1     1     1     1
12        1     1     1     1     1     1
13        1     1     1     1     2     1
14        1     1     1     1     2     1
15        2     1     1     1     2     2
16        2     1     1     1     2     2
17        2     2     3     1     2     2
18        2     2     3     1     2     2
19        2     4     3     5     2     4
20        2     4     3     5     2     4

tot       17   19     19   19     19   21

you math is still wrong of 3+2 still only equalls 5 not 6
i fixed you great ax/ maul calcs

again though your no looking at the big picture of percentage. I understand your want to hender the twf barbs, but you sacrife the majority of barbs who happen to be thf. If the fighter's of the game really feel that this is a has to be then lets "balence" tham to by removing a feat or two.

[Impaqt]

Banishers and smiters are worthless on hard and elite, crit rage doesn't effect them there, so they aren't overpowering once the difficulty goes up.

The Wounding/Puncturing combo is powerful, but it is powerful in any classes' hands, NOT JUST BARBS! And they are THE RAREST weapon combo in the game, BY FAR! If we are "balancing" the game for some piece of uber loot, then we are making a huge mistake.

What Game are you Playing? NOTHING inthe Vale is Immune to Banishing or Smiting on ANY Difficulty. A Barbarian with Crit Rage and a Pair of Banishing Rapiers can tear through Orthons and Beared Devils like a fat kid through a Chocolate cake.

[Cowdenicus]

What Game are you Playing? NOTHING inthe Vale is Immune to Banishing or Smiting on ANY Difficulty. A Barbarian with Crit Rage and a Pair of Banishing Rapiers can tear through Orthons and Beared Devils like a fat kid through a Chocolate cake.

he probably meant shroud.

[CrimsonEagle]

What Game are you Playing? NOTHING inthe Vale is Immune to Banishing or Smiting on ANY Difficulty. A Barbarian with Crit Rage and a Pair of Banishing Rapiers can tear through Orthons and Beared Devils like a fat kid through a Chocolate cake.

Beat me to it.

[krud]

you math is still of 3 =2 still only equalls 5 not 6
i fixed you great ax/ maul calcs

did you not read the OP? It is x2 damage. 2 x 3 = 6.

This does not favor any one weapon dps over another, compared to the current situation, except in the case where you only hit on a roll of 19 or 20. In that case this actually helps the lower crit range weapons more than the others.

either my solution or illuminati's approach will both achieve the same thing. I'm not gonna stand only for my position if another equally effective solution comes along. I'll take either one atm.

[CrimsonEagle]

he probably meant shroud.

From what I noticed....everyone uses vorpals in there....except on the bosses and the portals.

Only time true DPS really does matter is on the red names.

[Gunga]

did you not read the OP? It is x2 damage. 2 x 3 = 6.

This does not favor any one weapon dps over another, compared to the current situation, except in the case where you only hit on a roll of 19 or 20. In that case this actually helps the lower crit range weapons more than the others.

either my solution or illuminati's approach will both achieve the same thing. I'm not gonna stand only for my position if another equally effective solution comes along. I'll take either one atm.

/signed.

I like the idea of an enhancement that will increase dps without unfarily exploiting weapons that sould be useful in everyones hands (banishers, stat dams, etc).

[CrimsonEagle]

/signed.

I like the idea of an enhancement that will increase dps without unfarily exploiting weapons that sould be useful in everyones hands (banishers, stat dams, etc).

And once again I will have to ask the question. What will be done with tempest rangers who will get an unfair benifit while using these weapons?

I'm not saying this to start an argument....Its an honest question.

[Aspenor]

And once again I will have to ask the question. What will be done with tempest rangers who will get an unfair benifit while using these weapons?

I'm not saying this to start an argument....Its an honest question.

My answer to this is that tempest rangers do not get an "unfair benefit." They get a "fair benefit." Faster attack speed is not comparable to extended critical range for these weapons.

[Gunga]

My answer to this is that tempest rangers do not get an "unfair benefit." They get a "fair benefit." Faster attack speed is not comparable to extended critical range for these weapons.

Ever check out a tempest with two vorpals?

[CrimsonEagle]

My answer to this is that tempest rangers do not get an "unfair benefit." They get a "fair benefit."

Well. We are not sure yet if or when the devs are going to do anything. I still think they will have an unfair benifit by having the increased speed using these weapons and they will be the new undisputed kings of the kill but time will tell.

[Gunga]

And once again I will have to ask the question. What will be done with tempest rangers who will get an unfair benifit while using these weapons?

I'm not saying this to start an argument....Its an honest question.

I dont see how tempests come into the equation. You're assuming that this will hurt barbs, but one of the solutions will actually increase their dps.

[Aspenor]

Ever check out a tempest with two vorpals?

Yes but we are talking about banishers, smiters, and w/p rapiers, not vorpals.

"Extremely powerful" is not the same as "overpowered."

[Aspenor]

Well. We are not sure yet if or when the devs are going to do anything. I still think they will have an unfair benifit by having the increased speed using these weapons and they will be the new undisputed kings of the kill but time will tell.

Save this argument for when we get the tempest ranger/monk builds dual wielding vorpal kamas with flurry of blows, tempest, fast movement, and the combat stance that increases attack speed.