What's the difference??

[Firecloud]

Hi all, I'm a bit of a newbie to the Sorceror character but I'm confused by some of the spells...

What the heck is the difference between the spells Charm, charm monster, or suggestion etc? I'm not sure what to choose or what really works better against the different types of enemies.. Surely I don't need to learn all three of the above spells? Sorcerors cannot learn many spells and I need some advice on what to have memorized.. HELP!

Hoping someone can provide me with some info. Thanks.

[Nevthial]

Level 1 Spell : Charm Person : Good for Kobolds, Hobgoblins, Orcs, Troglodytes, and anything considered a "person" or Humanoid.

Level 3 Spell : Suggestion : Good for nearly anything, but has a limited duration.

Level 4 Spell : Charm Monster : As Suggestion, but with a longer duration. ( Up to 10 minutes.)

Suggestion you can take as a 6th level Sorcerer & Charm Monster you can take as an 8th level Sorcerer.

They each are effective and useful at various levels. Some people even get rid of Charm Person when Charm Monster becomes available.

Hope this helps.

[Atax]

I must say, I used suggestion and charm monster is so totally amazing compared to it.

Charm monster can grab nearly any target and keeps them for quite some time.. If you need something to hold aggro or to distract a group, charm monster is the way to go.

The issue with CM is that it contends for valuable spell slots with DDoor, Solid Fog, PK and other stuff.

[Firecloud]

see that's what i wanted to clarify. spell slots are so valuable i didnt want to waste one. I know I dont need all three so I guess my best option is CM. I was just confused because they all kind of seem the same (keep in mind I'm pretty new to the game)..

[rimble]

see that's what i wanted to clarify. spell slots are so valuable i didnt want to waste one. I know I dont need all three so I guess my best option is CM. I was just confused because they all kind of seem the same (keep in mind I'm pretty new to the game)..

Also by going with the higher level one you get a 'free' bump in the DC to resist the spell (maybe not a big deal if you use Heighten).

[transtemporal]

see that's what i wanted to clarify. spell slots are so valuable i didnt want to waste one. I know I dont need all three so I guess my best option is CM. I was just confused because they all kind of seem the same (keep in mind I'm pretty new to the game)..

I reccommend getting the heighten feat (if you don't already have it) so that your CM spell is still useful at 16th. Without it, your spell DC to resist it will be 4 lower than it could be, so mobs will make their will saves more often.

[Lithic]

one important difference is that suggestion ALWAYS lasts 6seconds per level once it hits. Always.

Charm spells on the other hand can last up to 10mins (I think), but mobs get a new save every so often. With charm person/monster its about every 3d6+10seconds, with dominate person its about every minute or two.

One spell to beware of (for the above reason) is mass suggestion. Sure its nice to charm 12 angry orc archers, but when they all break charm at the same time and send 12 arrows your way, you tend to notice.

[sirgog]

Personally, I use charm person as a cheap (SP-wise) spell that works well even on elite settings, when taking on Gnolls, Orcs and other dumb creatures which are not casters.

Suggestion is the best of the bunch, however, because of two things:

1) You know that once something is charmed, it will not break quickly. Charm Monster (likewise Charm Person) grants additional saves at fairly frequent intervals. Suggestion is going to keep something partyhatted for at least 36 seconds on a Sorc (96 sec at endgame, 192 if you forgot/chose not to turn Extend off). Most charmed mobs don't live 96 seconds unless your party is killing other mobs very quickly.

2) You know that once something is charmed, it will break eventually. One of the most frustrating things that can happen in-game is to charm a must-kill foe in a quest that has a low Will save, for instance dropping an extended Charm Monster on a Troglodyte Ranger in the ambush part of Coalessence Chamber. With Suggestion, you kick yourself mildly then wait 3 minutes 12 seconds (at most). With Charm, you'd better have Break Enchantment and the SP to cast it (average of 3 times), or a full wand of Dispel Magic: 10th to keep trying to roll a 19 or 20 to dispel it.

I'd recommend taking Charm Person at low-level (I still have it at 16th, but only use it in one endgame quest), Suggestion (which is my single most-frequently cast spell, yes more often even than Haste), and I'd consider taking one of the level 6 mass charm effects (Symbol of Persuasion is my personal preference, but Mass Suggestion has a lot going for it too).