Suggestion for Overbloated AH Prices

[branmakmuffin]

It ought to be about the journey, not the destination but when you pollute the experience with stuff like an auction house a little too much real life makes it's way into my fun time to suit me. Was there an AH in pnp? Was there email? Gold sellers? Was it about itemization when people got together around the table to have some fun together?

Agreed, to all of your notions. Unfortunately, most MMO players are power-gaming loot monkeys who value 00ber gear for their twinked-out, zerging XP mongers over RP. To them it's a video game to be beaten, not an RPG to be enjoyed.

Unfortunately, Turbine has to cater to the least common denominator to keep DDO in business.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Why is someone always willing to post this, as if it actually addresses the underlying issue?

Because its true.... Supply and demand...the prices are what they are because ppl are willing to pay. Welcome to capitalism

[branmakmuffin]

Because its true.... Supply and demand...the prices are what they are because ppl are willing to pay. Welcome to capitalism

Stormreach capitalism is unlike RL capitalism (that's even assuming there's such a thing as capitalism). Many seem incapable of realizing this.

[Scipio]

Stormreach capitalism is unlike RL capitalism (that's even assuming there's such a thing as capitalism). Many seem incapable of realizing this.

hehe... just like Capitalism is different from state to state, country to country... just cause it doesnt work the way the text book says it should doesn't mean it's also does not exist.

Heck in a way DDO capitalism is closer to a text books def. of what capitalism in a purer form could be. The only rule we really have is dont buy play for REAL money. You may never get caught but you ll alway have to keep the info on the Down Low or you will lose your account.

[MissErres]

Stormreach capitalism is unlike RL capitalism (that's even assuming there's such a thing as capitalism). Many seem incapable of realizing this.

cap·i·tal·ism
Function: noun Date: 1877 : an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market (Webster's definition)

nawww.... i don't think it exists anywhere.

[Hoogly]

I would enjoy a permadeath character played with a group of friends in a static. I cannot say I'd enjoy being in a guild with that focus not that I am critical of it. It's just not what I would prefer.

Your good points are well taken and I basically do some of that. I don't play the AH game which here with such a poorly implemented interface would be more trouble that its worth on a good day in my opinion. I got rich playing the buying/selling/trading "game within the game" elsewhere previously and in that place it was a fun diversion but I didn't need wealth there to have fun either. Then again, in that place there was no nameless, faceless AH. There was a bazaar with its own little community of "trader players" who got to know each other and talked about their wares, advertised them in ooc, discussed the game, argued about prices, etc. It truly was a fun little microcosm of EverQuest to go spend time in. Flawed though it was the social aspect of spending time there fit in well for what this kind of game is or ought to be about.

I guess what I am getting it is that the game design could reign in people's tendency to get lost in the itemization, leveling, and tendency to fall into the trap of being more concerned with one's own personal agenda for gaining power and stuff and some false sense of greatness. Most MMO designs cater to this human weakness rather than eschew it as I think at least some of them could and this one in particular should.

Fully geared level 16 with virtually the best attainable everything at enormous waste of life time spent is a lie. Purchasing that with real money is worse in a real world where children die for lack of food daily. And once that grand goal is achieved? Then what? Roll say a new Monk and zerg the content as fast as possible to get them to this same hollow place of "glory?" Reaching that place sadly isn't even about skill or intellect at all assuming minimal cognitive function. It's only about time. He who wastes the most time wins. Wins what? I don't know. You tell me.

I see the AH as just a part of the equation in that sorry sum of time wasted.

On the other hand, I could argue for spending a great deal of one's free time here on other pursuits that are not a waste of time. These worlds afford one a wonderful opportunity to connect with great people you never could have met any other way. I love them best for this myself.

Friends one might make just having fun with a focus on the shared experience and fun of that, not the levels and the stuff, are the real wins one can take with them when it's all over and the servers are unplugged.

It's worth acknowledging that sure, the toys and items are fun parts of the game. Yes, there is some element of skill, coordination and learned tactics in beating various encounters but none of it is particularly hard for any group of people who just communicate with each other and work together. Here again, doing this with a group of friends and enjoying the time with them is where this game can really shine. The game gets really fun when you try to push the envelope and say, do some quest on elite with a less than full group of less than maximally twinked or fully geared capped players just to see if you can pull it off. Whatever skills the game might afford one to choose from are best tested here as is a players own ability to choose them on the fly with a lot going on simultaneously that will determine the outcome if victory is even possible. This is done without concern for chests, end reward or xp. It's done because it's hard to do and it's fun. If you pull it off its even more fun but even if you didn't, the fun would have been the adventure of trying it with a friend or two or three. No loot or advancement involved and yet, the game experience is at its very, very best. You don't need a player economy or best anything for this. You need something that is valuable for real. A friend of two to experience it with. Those you have to earn for real too. You won't find them in any AH for sale.

The gradual rise to greater power and taking on more challenging mobs and content is fun with friends but the former should take a back seat to the latter. In honesty, how often do we see that in MMOs including this one? No wonder its so special when you do.

Anywhere a game design can promote the good and cut the worthless is for the win. That's why I have come to feel itemization, auction houses, in game money and poorly designed content it is possible to zerg could all stand to go. It is absolutely possible to design better. If we can put a man on the moon then I think we can make a better game than any of these are yet.

WoW is the best game going for items and leveling. You can solo to cap easily, quickly and fully independently. For some this is heaven. You are not dependent on anyone for anything to get yourself a full set of so-called "epic" purples and sadly enough, it's the most popular game by far probably because of this in addition to its simplicity. I met people there would would go anon to pursue their own interests and tell guild mates they were logging or afk and find them zipping around a zone "advancing" themselves. Sad stuff that.

I maintain this game by it's heritage and roots can and ought to be far, far better than that. Of course as I know you were saying above that also comes down to what players make of it. To that I'd say well, have a look around and see what are they making of it in greatest numbers? A better game design would do those people good. It would help them find the real fun and help them discover some things of real value for the time spent. Clearly one need not look far to see how many in MMOs could use a little steering in the right direction.

"You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one." - John Lennon

[Arlith]

Was there an AH in pnp?

There was whatever a DM said there was. There are things in PnP that are not in DDo and things in DDo that are not in PnP. DDO can not be PnP, it just won't work. There will be differences.

Was there email? Gold sellers?

Email?? Not much need for it in PnP where everyone was sitting at a table, or connected via conference or instant messenger during the game. But in your PnP lifetime are you telling me you never once sent an email, or made a phone call or had a conversation about your campaign when you were not actively playing? I won't say it can't happen, but in quite a few years of PnP I have never seen it happen. Everyone talks, discusses tactics for next week, or makes deals for this or that, or whatever. Ever pull anything out of a chest and think it would be perfect for one of your other characters who isn't in this adventure?

Gold sellers?? Meh, what are you going to do?

PnP is a handfull of people gathered dealing with a world of NPC's. NPCs whose interaction was limited only by the discretion of the DM. One day they may not talk to you at all. On another day, if there is need they may be very helpful indeed. This is very different. Here you have a whole world of players dealing with a handfull of NPC's. NPCs of a very limited scope. There are adjustments.

Agreed, to all of your notions. Unfortunately, most MMO players are power-gaming loot monkeys who value 00ber gear for their twinked-out, zerging XP mongers over RP. To them it's a video game to be beaten, not an RPG to be enjoyed.

Unfortunately, Turbine has to cater to the least common denominator to keep DDO in business.

That makes good business sense. If the largest player base consists of power-gaming loot monkeys then the largest amount of money comes from them. The game needs money to thrive. No money, no game. Therefore if "most MMO players are power-gaming loot monkeys", you should bow down and pay homage to them for keeping this game running for you to play.

Unfortunately there are players, RP and zergers alike, who are so mule stubborn, stiff necked, and narrow minded they cannot recognize there are many ways to enjoy this game. And while the game is not perfect it does a **** good job of letting everyone enjoy it in their own way. I feel sorry for folks like that, don't you?

[Scipio]

Fully geared level 16 with virtually the best attainable everything at enormous waste of life time spent is a lie. Purchasing that with real money is worse in a real world where children die for lack of food daily. And once that grand goal is achieved? Then what? Roll say a new Monk and zerg the content as fast as possible to get them to this same hollow place of "glory?" Reaching that place sadly isn't even about skill or intellect at all assuming minimal cognitive function. It's only about time. He who wastes the most time wins. Wins what? I don't know. You tell me.

I see the AH as just a part of the equation in that sorry sum of time wasted.

On the other hand, I could argue for spending a great deal of one's free time here on other pursuits that are not a waste of time. These worlds afford one a wonderful opportunity to connect with great people you never could have met any other way. I love them best for this myself.


I maintain this game by it's heritage and roots can and ought to be far, far better than that. Of course as I know you were saying above that also comes down to what players make of it. To that I'd say well, have a look around and see what are they making of it in greatest numbers? A better game design would do those people good. It would help them find the real fun and help them discover some things of real value for the time spent. Clearly one need not look far to see how many in MMOs could use a little steering in the right direction.

"You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one." - John Lennon

lol... mate we can devote everything to try to make sure people dont die.... but they will. When we die life goes on, may as well make do with what we got. Cause in the end everything we do can be called a waste of time. Why should others suffer from your guilty mind?

Make suggestions please but, I just dont think we need a nanny state here...lol Why would most of these peeps stay if they were forced to play the way you want.

Imagine always makes me chuckle... if ya take out the first line of the song Lennon is basicly asking for the Christian heaven.... lol

[Scipio]

Unfortunately there are players, RP and zergers alike, who are so mule stubborn, stiff necked, and narrow minded they cannot recognize there are many ways to enjoy this game. And while the game is not perfect it does a **** good job of letting everyone enjoy it in their own way. I feel sorry for folks like that, don't you?

YES! I think if ya want something a little different here you prolly can, with work make it...

[branmakmuffin]

cap·i·tal·ism
Function: noun Date: 1877 : an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market (Webster's definition)

Yeah, the dictionary is the ultimate source of all issues philosophical, particularly when the dictionary is published by a source that is biased regarding the very thing it is defining.

Capitalism only exists, the so-called free market only exists, in the form the government in charge allows it to take. The existence or non-existence of capitalism is a topic of philosophy. Defining it is not like defining "automobile."

[Tanka]

Unfortunately, Turbine has to cater to the least common denominator to keep DDO in business.

Oh, you mean there are more RP folks than people who want to twink, who want to powergame, who want to be the best they can be in the game?

Please.

[branmakmuffin]

Oh, you mean there are more RP folks than people who want to twink, who want to powergame, who want to be the best they can be in the game?

What is this, DDO or the US Army? "Be the best they can be." Spare me.

The least common denominator is "loot." Even RPers like loot. Loot makes everyone happy, to one degree or another.

[Scipio]

Yeah, the dictionary is the ultimate source of all issues philosophical, particularly when the dictionary is published by a source that is biased regarding the very thing it is defining.

Capitalism only exists, the so-called free market only exists, in the form the government in charge allows it to take. The existence or non-existence of capitalism is a topic of philosophy. Defining it is not like defining "automobile."

lol.... its a long wait for someone that will not have any bias to come along.

yeah its easier to define automobile but even then you can get philosophical about it... eventually all words arent quite right in describing a subject if ya look at it long enough. Sometimes best to just say close enough.

[MissErres]

What is this, DDO or the US Army? "Be the best they can be." Spare me.

The least common denominator is "loot." Even RPers like loot. Loot makes everyone happy, to one degree or another.

oh, but there is no capitalism... anywhere... ever...

[HumanJHawkins]

Unfortunately, Turbine has to cater to the least common denominator to keep DDO in business.

Ah... Yes. Anyone who has different tastes than you is a member of the "least common denominator" club. Now I see why you have so many friends on the forums.

[branmakmuffin]

Ah... Yes. Anyone who has different tastes than you is a member of the "least common denominator" club. Now I see why you have so many friends on the forums.

Anyone who plays DDO like a video game (which is what the vast majority do, I admit) and not an RPG is no loss to me as a potential fellow party member. Besides, the vociferous few on the forums are just that: the vociferous few.

yeah its easier to define automobile but even then you can get philosophical about it... eventually all words arent quite right in describing a subject if ya look at it long enough. Sometimes best to just say close enough.

"Capitalism" is much more open to debate than "automobile," I'm sure you will acknowledge.

oh, but there is no capitalism... anywhere... ever...

Really, then how come you ...? Wait, you're being sarcastic, aren't you?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Anyone who plays DDO like a video game (which is what the vast majority do, I admit) and not an RPG is no loss to me as a potential fellow party member. Besides, the vociferous few on the forums are just that: the vociferous

I think its kind of funny that you claim to be a RPG fan and yet you put down those that are loot hungry. I never met a dwarf or a rogue that wasn't loot hungry... and most RPs have that as at least a portion of their motivation.

Very odd the way you look down upon everyone who doesn't 100% share your playstyle...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Stormreach capitalism is unlike RL capitalism (that's even assuming there's such a thing as capitalism). Many seem incapable of realizing this.

You cant make a statement without trying to put someone down can you?

Ok, would you prefer the term free market if you don't like the politically tied term capitalism? Or are you claiming there isn't a free market at play?

[Tanka]

Very odd the way you look down upon everyone who doesn't 100% share your playstyle...

It's his way... Or the highway!

[branmakmuffin]

You cant make a statement without trying to put someone down can you?

Ok, would you prefer the term free market if you don't like the politically tied term capitalism? Or are you claiming there isn't a free market at play?

There's no such thing as the "free market" in our society. The market, in whatever form it exists, exists in whatever form the government allows it to take. It's not some immutable law of the universe. The only truly free market is total anarchy. You call what you see in the U.S. (I assume) the free market because you've been taught that that's what it is.