My Problem with AC vs Defense

[Redcoil]

Lets take this fun example: Paladin in the shroud on elite. Enemy attack miss rate: 5% Damage taken? Full

Drow Sorc. 17 AC. Damage taken? Exact same.

With AC means virtually nothing, its a shame a guy in full plate takes the same damage as a guy in a robe.

[FluffyCalico]

Lets take this fun example: Paladin in the shroud on elite. Enemy attack miss rate: 5% Damage taken? Full

Drow Sorc. 17 AC. Damage taken? Exact same.

With AC means virtually nothing, its a shame a guy in full plate takes the same damage as a guy in a robe.

A real shame is people keep posting AC is broken and can only come up with 1 mob and 2 bosses in 1 raid as examples to prove there point because in the other 99.99999999% of the game AC is very powerful. Sorry there are 3 things in game that don't let your ac be the best possible thing.

PS> Elite orthons don't hit a 72AC pally on a 2 like you claim.

[Redcoil]

You apparently weren't paying attention;

And AC on most places on Elite anymore isn't so much useless, moreover it doesn't impact play as much as it should.

I was just generalizing to make a point.
Everyone generalized from one example...
Or at least, I do.

[FluffyCalico]

You apparently weren't paying attention;

And AC on most places on Elite anymore isn't so much useless, moreover it doesn't impact play as much as it should.

I was just generalizing to make a point.
Everyone generalized from one example...
Or at least, I do.

Name me 1 non-purple that can come close to hitting a 72 AC on a 2 other than the so called elite orthon which can't either.

[DaveyCrockett]

I think a better question is:

Red, what is your AC? (and if you say over 65, please provide a screenshot)

[Dexxaan]

Another AC unbeliever....

BTW Shroud Elite Orthon Defender will hit an ETAC 68 AC about 1/3 of the time...at most, I´m more inclined to say 25% of the time actually.

"Most people in forums who generalize have no clue about what they are talking about."

Of course I´m generalizing to make a point

[Tarackian]

Right but to get that survivability you have sold out how many other things? to-hit bonus? what else? and at the high end content, its all about damage mitigation (blur/displacement/strategy/stoneskin) not about AC. I don't really know if that is a flaw in the system or not. Only a few builds and/or classes can get that high of an AC, it is not a a common thing. I've read AC builds on the forums. They are specialized. That is the point of the build, ie., specialized. Damage Mitigation is where it is at.

Another AC unbeliever....

BTW Shroud Elite Orthon Defender will hit an ETAC 68 AC about 1/3 of the time...at most, I´m more inclined to say 25% of the time actually.

"Most people in forums who generalize have no clue about what they are talking about."

Of course I´m generalizing to make a point

[Borror0]

Another AC unbeliever...

I don't think you'll be able to call me an AC unbeliever, eh?

AC is alright, but it's rather the Shroud who's broken. With needing 65 AC to be hit only on a 20 by the fiend, on normal. With CR 24 Elite Orthon Defender (that's on Hard) hitting an AC of 57 (that I hear no one say it's not a good AC) about 35% of the time. With most red named in the second part of the Shroud Elite hitting you on a 2, with around 63 AC... there is something wrong there.

[Dexxaan]

Right but to get that survivability you have sold out how many other things? to-hit bonus? what else? and at the high end content, its all about damage mitigation (blur/displacement/strategy/stoneskin) not about AC. I don't really know if that is a flaw in the system or not. Only a few builds and/or classes can get that high of an AC, it is not a a common thing. I've read AC builds on the forums. They are specialized. That is the point of the build, ie., specialized. Damage Mitigation is where it is at.

I have sold-out not a single thing. (Suggest you read Paladins Forum - Bruttus)
Dwarf Paladin 12 Fighter 4; STR 31 DEX 21 ON 24 INT 13 WIS 13 (19 when I get Goggles 2nd Upgrade) CHA 22; 465 Hit Points; AC 68 Unbuffed-Undispellable (additional +6 vs Giants); BAB 16 +3 from DFavor; Khopesh; Plenty of Combat Feats; Plenty Spell Points (380-425).

Damage Mitigation and High AC go Hand in Hand, As Cleric heals the Barbarian my lil legs are pounding forward and not needing the healing umbilical-cord. Killing Mobs that cannot hold, trip, Disease, nor HIT me. Too many times I have to come back and pick up stones of these UBERBARIANS....they drop like flies once the Cleric is on Wands....

I don't think you'll be able to call me an AC unbeliever, eh?

AC is alright, but it's rather the Shroud who's broken. With needing 65 AC to be hit only on a 20 by the fiend, on normal. With CR 24 Elite Orthon Defender (that's on Hard) hitting an AC of 57 (that I hear no one say it's not a good AC) about 35% of the time. With most red named in the second part of the Shroud Elite hitting you on a 2, with around 63 AC... there is something wrong there.

Nah Borroró; of all Forum friends I couldn´t call you an AC Unbeliever...and I agree the Shroud (Hard and Elite) is messed up when it comes to Melee.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I don't think you'll be able to call me an AC unbeliever, eh?

AC is alright, but it's rather the Shroud who's broken. With needing 65 AC to be hit only on a 20 by the fiend, on normal. With CR 24 Elite Orthon Defender (that's on Hard) hitting an AC of 57 (that I hear no one say it's not a good AC) about 35% of the time. With most red named in the second part of the Shroud Elite hitting you on a 2, with around 63 AC... there is something wrong there.

Some of us hit them on a 2 or better....so it's only fair.

But, I know that when I use my shield, I get hit a lot less.......in almost any quest.

I would expect that an "Elite Orthon Defender" would be a nasty creature to go toe to toe with. So IMO it's not necessarliy broken.

What I would like to see is for the devs to design a dungeon that gives us some options other than letting big bad guys whack on us. Terrain to use to our advantage etc. But then someone would call it an exploit or worry that the quest was too easy.

As it is we think AC is broke cause we look like Peter Parker in a Steel Cage with Bone Crusher or Saw or whatever.......and DDO doesn't even have the Spider Climb spell! (no wonder so many people ask for the Jump spell upon entering a dungeon)

[Borror0]

I agree the Shroud (Hard and Elite) is messed up when it comes to Melee.

I think that's pretty much his point too, some quests have riddiculous requirements on AC, whereas the HP requirement are fairly easy to acheive.

Some of us hit them on a 2 or better....so it's only fair.

LOL

But, I know that when I use my shield, I get hit a lot less.......in almost any quest.

I know, me too.. but the Shroud is...

I would expect that an "Elite Orthon Defender" would be a nasty creature to go toe to toe with. So IMO it's not necessarliy broken.

Hit HARD? I'm all for it.
Give him Power Attack so he can trade all of his BAB for a bonus to damage.

Anyone agrees with me?

But then someone would call it an exploit or worry that the quest was too easy.

I mean, c'mon!! It's obviously one!!
Are you blind?!

[Inspire]

I Have A Pic Of The Pit Fiend Hitting My Ac Build (Allegiance) At A 78 Ac (Tumbling Of Course) But He's Allowed To Roll 20's Too! Ill See If I Can Find It Tomorrow Sometime... Not Much Trouble With Other Mobs Tho... Heh

Ps: All I Was Doing Was Tumbling Around Him So Im Positive That It Was 78 (-8 If He Caught Me When I Was Standing)

[Twerpp]

AC rocks, it works. I do believe in HEAVY ARMOR you should get some more damage mitigation ie soaking damage, but not in mith or light. DDO has that already in the form of adamantine though it doesnt really play anymore.

Maybe a feat or enhancement line similar to shield mastery but passive and for heavy armor? I dunno, that would be nice but would people use it when you can farm stoneskin clickies??? Prob not.