Updated AI - agro change

[ahpook]

Yesterdays patch may have fixed an outstanding bug. For the past few months, I could sneak up behind Rochussen (Earth Ele in the Vale) and beat on him with a puncturing rapier until he died of con damage - without ever getting agro. That was because my rogue did not have sufficient str to get past his DR and do 0 damage.

However, after last night it would seem that the old Roch doesn't like getting his con drained and he turned to start beating on me when I got in my first critical hit. It was suprising but welcome as it was always non-sensical that I could take him down without him noticing. However, it did take the con damage to get his attention as the 0 damage regular hits left him unaware (as also confirmed by my 0 damage hits with a banishing xbow on Utheseen).

While this particular scenario is rather uncommon and won't affect most questing parties I was wondering if anyone else has noticed anything that would help us understand the extent of this change? For example, Can CON damage outstrip regular HP damage in the agro assignment? Do other stat damagers get agro as well? Have spells been affected?

From the devs, I would be interested to know if there are plans for 0 damage attacks to generate agro? Will misses generate agro?
Will spells that get stopped by SR or are saved against (resulting in no effects being applied) cause agro?

I would also like to give a thumbs up to the devs for making this improvement to the monster AI.

[Angelus_dead]

However, after last night it would seem that the old Roch doesn't like getting his con drained and he turned to start beating on me when I got in my first critical hit. It was suprising but welcome

The first interesting question (and not hard to test), is if the con damage generates aggro, or simply wakes up the monster.

One possibility is that taking con damage simply caused the monster to stop loitering and look around, and that he attacked you on sight. The other is that con damage now adds hate to the aggro list, which would mean it is actually possible to pull aggro off another player with con damage.

[oronisi]

At one point they removed the ability to do stat damage unless you actually damage the monster. In your case, being unable to bypass his DR should have meant no con damage.

So the real question for me is, 'when did the devs let that one slip back in?' There's a lot of that lately actually, but that supplimental information shall remain unspecified.

[Mad_Bombardier]

At one point they removed the ability to do stat damage unless you actually damage the monster. In your case, being unable to bypass his DR should have meant no con damage.

So the real question for me is, 'when did the devs let that one slip back in?' There's a lot of that lately actually, but that supplimental information shall remain unspecified.

Wounding (and other every hit effects) were included in that change. Puncturing is crit only, so does not need to actually do damage.

[Impaqt]

At one point they removed the ability to do stat damage unless you actually damage the monster. In your case, being unable to bypass his DR should have meant no con damage.

So the real question for me is, 'when did the devs let that one slip back in?' There's a lot of that lately actually, but that supplimental information shall remain unspecified.

On Crit Stat Damage was never incuded inthe "Must do damage" scenario. Only the 1pt per hit types need to bypass damage Reduction.

[Nott]

I was under the impression that stat damage would cause aggro (and that it had been that way quite a while)... apparently not. I based that belief on a change that would cause aggro to casters who put up CK from a distance. I never verified the CK aggro myself; was that working before this patch?

[Gratch]

On monster AI changes with the patch, just put this into a bug report:

We ran the orc and hobgoblin lairs last night after the 2nd Wednesday patch. Two bugs, which may be the same bug that I noticed as consistently prevalent in these two quests:

1) Mobs that start as melee (sword in hand) are not aggro'ing, moving, animating on us until they are hit. The ranged and caster mobs run up to fight us, but all the ones with swords make no animation or movement until they are hit.

2) Mobs that start as melee that you charm or suggest which have not been aggro'ed (as above) will follow, will take damage, but never attack or change from their melee "ready-stance". We were using them as pin cushions while other ranged mobs fired at them and they took damage... but they did not react to either advance towards the ranged mob or switch to their own ranged weapon. The only movement these charmed mobs make is to follow you around when there is noone to fight. When there is someone to fight... they freeze. If you first aggro said mobs by damage, they can then be charmed and act normally.

Edit: As we were short handed in the quest, I was charming a large number of monsters. I haven't tested without charmed monsters running around whether item 1) occurs if you have no charmed mobs. Anyone else run these quests since the double patching yesterday? Or see similar broken AI of monsters not aggro'ing until hit?

[MrCow]

Mobs that start as melee (sword in hand) are not aggro'ing, moving, animating on us until they are hit. The ranged and caster mobs run up to fight us, but all the ones with swords make no animation or movement until they are hit.

This is an issue that was present before the patch for the "orcs with swords in hand".

While this particular scenario is rather uncommon and won't affect most questing parties I was wondering if anyone else has noticed anything that would help us understand the extent of this change? For example, Can CON damage outstrip regular HP damage in the agro assignment? Do other stat damagers get agro as well? Have spells been affected?

I can confirm that stat damage (spell or weapon) will cause aggro. I went to play with some flesh renders using the contagion spell and any of the stat damage it invokes caused instant aggro. A no-physical-damage enfeebling critical caused STR-based damage aggro. Also, stat damage from contagion even broke hypnotism. So stat damage now seems to follow many of the same rules for normal HP damage.

Although, an interesting difference I have noticed is that stat damage induced aggro can allow you to single pull critters if you do it out of sight of the other critters.

[Depravity]

I'm 5 levels into a Ghoste style stealth arcane, so I've been doing a lot of long range charm sniping.

I have noticed the promised prompter charm agroing. When dragging charmies around, and getting agro based on sight alone, mobs much prefer me until a charmy hits them.

Occasional moments of indecision on both sides and I still have problems with things deciding that something on the other side of a door really needs to die, but otherwise haven't seen any bad behavior.

[Gratch]

Hmmm... I know I saw the charmed mobs not attacking in both orc and hobgob lair last night. The orcs were much worse.

My first item of non-aggroing mobs may have only been the sword in hand orcs... and I guess I had heard of that bug before... just had not witnessed it so explicitly as in a small group running the quest.