Tanks ?

[bastion222]

I pose a question for everyone out there, I have just come back to the game after a long period and am trying to get caught back up with all the changes. I hear people talking about evasion tanks, paper tanks, intimitanks, etc. What does that all mean? Also do people use tanks for the end game content? When I think of a tank from other MMO's I've played, the image that comes to mind is one guy that can keep all the agro and take a pounding while the rest of the team kills the monster. Is that pretty much how it works in DDO also? Thanks.

[Aranticus]

I pose a question for everyone out there, I have just come back to the game after a long period and am trying to get caught back up with all the changes. I hear people talking about evasion tanks, paper tanks, intimitanks, etc. What does that all mean? Also do people use tanks for the end game content? When I think of a tank from other MMO's I've played, the image that comes to mind is one guy that can keep all the agro and take a pounding while the rest of the team kills the monster. Is that pretty much how it works in DDO also? Thanks.

paper tank - high dps (thou not always), low ac, low hp. essentially alot of points in str, not enuff in con. gets cut up easy and badly in battles

intimitank - uber high ac, some sacrifice on dps, high hp, high intimidate skills to get mob agro. intimidate mobs so they do not target other members of party. high ac in excess of 60 usually exceed 70 under right conditions. high ac to take punishment from all that agro. saves cleric tons of stress

evasion tank - have 2 lvl of rogue for evasion, wears light armor (evasion on work in light armor), decent dex to get high reflex saves, typically quite resistant to damage spells with reflex saves (0 dmg on save), ac or hp usually suffer (light armor, decent dex required)

[Aranticus]

your image is more of the intimitank build. in ddo there are many ways to "tank"

barb - high dps (grabs agro with high damage), high hp (can soak damage)

pally - mod dps but hate generating attacks (using enhancements), high saves and self healing

fighter - mod-high dps (feat and strength based), wears heavy armor for high ac, decent hp to soak and of coz intimidate

this is just some of the more common playing methods. there are other types out there. due to the nature of ddo, its impossible to almost define the exact role of the classes.

[Illuminati]

If you are looking for the eq/vanguard type tank then an Intimitank or Evasion Tank is probably what you are looking for.

There are a few builds in the forums for these:

Riott's Tank build
Borrow's Dwarven Defender
Evasion Tank

Hope this helps

[bastion222]

Thanks for the replys guys. One last thing to add, will it kill me to make a 28 pt tank now then regret it the day I open up 32? My highest guy only has 250 favor, and I don't always have alot of play time. But I don't want to devote time to building up a tank only to always wish I had waiting on a 32 point build. So are making toons with 28pts still worthwhile in endgame? How much difference is 4 points?

[dragonoffrost]

Thanks for the replys guys. One last thing to add, will it kill me to make a 28 pt tank now then regret it the day I open up 32? My highest guy only has 250 favor, and I don't always have alot of play time. But I don't want to devote time to building up a tank only to always wish I had waiting on a 32 point build. So are making toons with 28pts still worthwhile in endgame? How much difference is 4 points?

This is the question that will get both answers, some say it means a lot others will say it means nothing. It mostly to me means another stat can get a decent starting score. For my intimitank I added a couple of points to Cha and got an extra point in Cha skills. Do I play him often no but I probably will return to him when I'm done leveling my cleric I am currently leveling with a group of guildies new characters.

[Forceonature]

Thanks for the replys guys. One last thing to add, will it kill me to make a 28 pt tank now then regret it the day I open up 32? My highest guy only has 250 favor, and I don't always have alot of play time. But I don't want to devote time to building up a tank only to always wish I had waiting on a 32 point build. So are making toons with 28pts still worthwhile in endgame? How much difference is 4 points?

If you're going to multiclass (i.e. splash a few levels of Pally) then those 4 points really come in handy. They also come in handy for things like Combat Expertise (requires 13 INT).

[rawfocat]

Thanks for the replys guys. One last thing to add, will it kill me to make a 28 pt tank now then regret it the day I open up 32? My highest guy only has 250 favor, and I don't always have alot of play time. But I don't want to devote time to building up a tank only to always wish I had waiting on a 32 point build. So are making toons with 28pts still worthwhile in endgame? How much difference is 4 points?

The more you multiclass your tank, the more the extra 4 points help. if you are going for a pally/rog/ftr tank, you will want 32 pt builds. However, if you are going to stay pure ftr and go intimitank, then 28 will be fine. If you splash 2 rog, then you may have to give up some trap smithing with 28 point builds.

Also as a prevous poster pointed out CE (combat expertise) requires a 13 INT. With a 28 point build I would recommend starting INT at 12 and then waiting on CE until you get a +1 int tome.

[Borror0]

Borrow's Dwarven Defender

Can't you at least spell my name properly?

Borror!! hehe

[biophyte05]

paper tank - high dps (thou not always), low ac, low hp. essentially alot of points in str, not enuff in con. gets cut up easy and badly in battles

intimitank - uber high ac, some sacrifice on dps, high hp, high intimidate skills to get mob agro. intimidate mobs so they do not target other members of party. [COLOR="Red"]high ac in excess of 60 usually exceed 70 under right conditions. high ac to take punishment from all that agro. saves cleric tons of stress

evasion tank - have 2 lvl of rogue for evasion, wears light armor (evasion on work in light armor), decent dex to get high reflex saves, typically quite resistant to damage spells with reflex saves (0 dmg on save), ac or hp usually suffer (light armor, decent dex required)

How is ac this high possible? I have been playing for 2 years now and none of my characters have been able to exceed ac 41! Perhaps I should not be playing this game I suddenly seem to stink

[Borror0]

How is ac this high possible? I have been playing for 2 years now and none of my characters have been able to exceed ac 41! Perhaps I should not be playing this game I suddenly seem to stink

Taking my build for an example:

10 Base
+13 Armor
+9 Shield
+5 Protection
+6 Dodge
+1 Aura
+6 Dex
+4 Insight
+5 Combat Expertise
59 Unbuffed

With this gear:

Head: Helmet of Intimidation (+15)
Trinket: Head of Good Fortune
Necklace: +5 Protection
Belt: Daggertooth Belt
Armor: +5 Mithril Fullplate
Shield: +5 Mithril Tower Shield
Ring: Chattering Ring
Ring: +6 Dexterous Ring
Bracers: Chaosguard
Cloak: +6 Charismatic Cloak
Googles: HP Goggles
Gloves: +6 Ogre Power Gloves
Boots: Boots of the Innocent

Then, you may push it higher with buffs. +3 from barskin potions and +1 from Haste puts you at 63 by yourself. Then, you may add outside buff like +2 from a full Barkskin, +2 from Recitation, +4 from a full Aura of Good and +4 from Inspire Heroics puts you at 75. You can also add +5 from a AC boost, but that's temporary. There's always debuffs to help too.

[Snoggy]

Taking my build for an example:

10 Base
+13 Armor
+9 Shield
+5 Protection
+6 Dodge
+1 Aura
+6 Dex
+4 Insight
+5 Combat Expertise
59 Unbuffed

With this gear:

Head: Helmet of Intimidation (+15)
Trinket: Head of Good Fortune
Necklace: +5 Protection
Belt: Daggertooth Belt
Armor: +5 Mithril Fullplate
Shield: +5 Mithril Tower Shield
Ring: Chattering Ring
Ring: +6 Dexterous Ring
Bracers: Chaosguard
Cloak: +6 Charismatic Cloak
Googles: HP Goggles
Gloves: +6 Ogre Power Gloves
Boots: Boots of the Innocent

Then, you may push it higher with buffs. +3 from barskin potions and +1 from Haste puts you at 63 by yourself. Then, you may add outside buff like +2 from a full Barkskin, +2 from Recitation, +4 from a full Aura of Good and +4 from Inspire Heroics puts you at 75. You can also add +5 from a AC boost, but that's temporary. There's always debuffs to help too.

You forgot your weapon, which is what's giving the +4 insight bonus, IIRC.

[Borror0]

You forgot your weapon, which is what's giving the +4 insight bonus, IIRC.

Right, Green Steel weapon, for a +4 Insight bonus to AC.

[biophyte05]

Yeah I have never seen nor heard of many of the items/weapons you speak of although I am now researching. I have never pulled anything better than a plus 3 holy shortsword of pure good, ONLY ONCE. All my characters have always been unlucky. I feel there is a "luck" bonus that is assigned at character generation that affects treasure loot. Anyway, that is the only way I can justify in my head my disappointments with this great game. I guess my characters are doomed to be mediocre because I can't afford to buy and don't seem to pull Uberweapons. Thanks for your replys. You rock.

[Snoggy]

Yeah I have never seen nor heard of many of the items/weapons you speak of although I am now researching.

Well, let's look at his list more closely:

- Head: Helmet of Intimidation (+15)
This item is just a normal drop item. High level mind you, but something that even if you don't get to drop in a chest you can eventually find for sale on the AH. It works towards boosting his intimidate skill. And doesn't affect AC at all.

- Trinket: Head of Good Fortune
This item drops from The Reaver raid. It doesn't affect AC. It affects skill checks and ... resists IIRC?

-Necklace: +5 Protection
This item does affect AC. If you can't get it in the neck slot, there's also protection bonus to be found in the cloak slot. These tend to be expensive on the AH if you are unlucky with chest drops, but they are certainly purchasable.

- Belt: Daggertooth Belt
I forget the quest this comes from. Crucible? Maybe? It's a nifty item and is most likely saving him some action points as it's helping him improve his AC through armor mastery enhancements.

- Armor: +5 Mithril Fullplate
Not raid loot. Very rare. Very expensive. Could purchase it. But that's a lot of coin to toss around.

- Shield: +5 Mithril Tower Shield
Not raid loot. Pretty rare. Usually overpriced on the AH, imo. It's possible to get over 50 AC with +4 Mitrhil FP and +4 Mithril Tower Shields. But eventually if you stick with the toon you'll want to upgrade to the max.

- Ring: Chattering Ring
Raid loot. Comes from the Warforged Titan Raid. This is the first bit of raid loot we've run into that is specifically really great at boosting AC (adds to your dodge AC, so it stacks) and isn't something readily available on the AH (like Mithril FP or Necklace of Protection).

- Ring: +6 Dexterous Ring
Just a stat item. Stat items are getting easier to find and cheaper to buy on the AH all the time.

- Bracers: Chaosguard
This named item comes from the Xorian Cipher quest. You need to be Lawful to equip it. Or have a UMD over 20, IIRC. This improves your dodge AC. It stacks with a chattering ring. It's a semi-rare item, but you can find these on the AH a lot more often than you could, say, last year.

Cloak: +6 Charismatic Cloak
Stat item. Doesn't affect AC.

Googles: HP Goggles
He's got HP goggles (I'm assuming these are Greensteel Goggles, which is why he's listing the intimidate helm instead of Minos helm now). Raid loot. But, doesn't affect AC.

Gloves: +6 Ogre Power Gloves
Stat item. Doesn't affect AC.

Boots: Boots of the Innocent
My brain's locking up, but IIRC, this is his resist item. And it comes from ... one of the orchard quests? Bah. I'm probably wrong on that. But I don't think this is contributing to his AC at all.

As you can see other than the greensteel weapon (which takes a lot of raiding to get the ingredients for the third tier and 4 AC insight bonus) ... and the chattering ring ... most of his items are either just high end but tradable stuff that you can loot from a chest or buy on the AH ... or are named items from quests, like the chaosgardes.

It requires time and effort to assemble this gear kit. But really, only two of the items on his list are rare-ish raid centered items. So try not to feel like this is an unattainable list. You can do it. And if this is the kind of character you want to play and invest your time in ... it's really all you have to chase with the toon anyways.

[Riot]

It definately take researching your gear,,,, and then Being able to attain it.... The first is easily the done, the second takes time and effort.

But when I'm sitting at 61 AC unbuffed..... me Likey!

[Djinni]

Boots of the Innocent
+5 Resistance
15% Striding

from one of the Orchard quests; looked it up the other day but can't find the site again atm

[Lewcipher]

I've known a character and seen his screenshot at mod 6. 80 AC!! My barb runs a 32 (who needs AC ) He won't tell how he did it, and he won't show his build...Arrggh

[Blazer]

I've known a character and seen his screenshot at mod 6. 80 AC!! My barb runs a 32 (who needs AC ) He won't tell how he did it, and he won't show his build...Arrggh

I've seen a screenie of this, too (may not be his, just a similar one). High dex, full bark, full pally aura, imp. uncanny dodge boost, recitation, etc etc etc. He's only hitting 80 under ideal circumstances and for short bursts.