Sorc vs. Wizard - Sorc. Wins

[scampb]

OK, for those that followed my last post asking for help determining whether I should be a sorc. or wiz, the sorc won. Now I am looking for some starting help. I have a few questions so if anyone can give some input it would be appreciated.

Which race and why? (I have drow available if this is an option for Sorc.)
Which alignment and why?
Where should I put my ability points and skill points when I customize my build?
Which feat/feats should I look at for the first couple?

Any other valuable input?

Any builds that you want to share please feel free, or the links to any that you feel are strong. I will browse around and look at some of the builds as well.

Remember, I am really knew to the game so something you may not think is pertinant or that I may already know, I actually may not so all feedback is welcome.

[bigj1608]

im gonna assume that you don't have 32 point builds. if you have 32 point build, human is probably your best bet, but without it, drow wins.

str 8
dex 10
con 14
int 12
wis 8
cha 20

those are viable starting stats, you can do with them what you like though.

for skills, you get 3 per level, and 12 at first level
put 2 in concentration
2 in tumble
4 in umd
4 in balance
at each level put 1 in umd, balance, and concentraton

for feats in order, this is what i'd do
1 maximize spell
3 extend spell
6 empower spell
9 heighten spell
12 spell penetration
15 greater spell penetration

if you want to know about spells just ask, someone else can prolly help

[Gabrion]

Personally I think there are two good choices for race - WF and drow.

WF gives you extra CON and the ability to self heal, but a severe hit to your CHA score (which is your primary stat). I almost feel if you want to choose WF for self healing you should go with Wizard since they don't have an INT penalty, but you certainly can play a WF Sorc as well.

Drow make excellent Sorcerers because of the boost to CHA. They are a little more frail because of their CON penalty, but this is less of a disadvantage than a hit to CHA in my opinion. Personally I would go drow if I were you.

For ability scores, you should max CHA, get INT to 10 so that you have two skill points/level (another advantage for drow - you wont have to spend any points to get INT 10), and put all your remaining points in CON for hit points.

In the spells department, make sure you have a first level blasting spell (I prefer niacs) then choose web as your first second level spell and haste as your first 3rd level spell. As long as you do that you can't go wrong.

Edit: Oh ya, max concentration and UMD (even though it is cross-class). You'll be happy you did later on.

[Aspenor]

im gonna assume that you don't have 32 point builds. if you have 32 point build, human is probably your best bet, but without it, drow wins.

I would like to note that this is entirely subjective. You don't have to have a 32 pt build human to compare to drow. My main is a 28 pt human that I will compare to any drow any day of the week. You still end up with more hit points as a 28 pt human with a comparable charisma score, and that's essentially all that matters for a sorc.

To the OP, here is my current build which was originally a mostly pure fire/cold nuker pre-mod 7. Now he is more generally focused into a little CC as well as nuking.

[jmelanie7]

put 2 in concentration

This is a mistake, concentration is USELESS for a sorc...ive rarely been interupted casting a spell on a sorcerer. And even if i do check for concentration sometimes, i do sucess on a roll of 2-3, and never put any points in that skill. So imho this build is not a bad build at all, but don't spend any points in concentration. I'd put them elsewhere, like balance....because you dont wanna fall prone, UMD, with your high cha youll be able to raise the dead and use heal scrolls and tumble, because ALL my toons have tumble...

[Aspenor]

This is a mistake, concentration is USELESS for a sorc...ive rarely been interupted casting a spell on a sorcerer. And even if i do check for concentration sometimes, i do sucess on a roll of 2-3, and never put any points in that skill. So imho this build is not a bad build at all, but don't spend any points in concentration. I'd put them elsewhere, like balance....you dont wanna fall prone

You can't be serious.

In end-game content with maximum ranks in concentration and a +7 stat modifier, usually running around +36 on my sorc, it's not uncommon to fail on rolls of lower than 13 when you're getting hit with delayed blast fireballs.

On my wizard that wears a concentration item pushing him into the 40s he still fails concentration checks.

Every sorc should have UMD. And tumble is unnecessary for a sorc.

[jmelanie7]

You can't be serious.

In end-game content with maximum ranks in concentration and a +7 stat modifier, usually running around +36 on my sorc, it's not uncommon to fail on rolls of lower than 13 when you're getting hit with delayed blast fireballs.

On my wizard that wears a concentration item pushing him into the 40s he still fails concentration checks.

Every sorc should have UMD. And tumble is unnecessary for a sorc.

Those are personal opinions. I do respect your opinion Asp, but i do not think that getting hit by ONE fireball during a quest justify the skill points used... And by the way, when i get PHYSICALLY hit, by a melee or ranged ATTACK, i do not fail my concentration really often...I do agree that spells are another story tho. But Scampb, you should try building what YOU think is good, this is the fastest way to become a good player. You don't know how many toons i rerolled.

And Asp, i do agree that wizzies need concentration even MORE than sorcs...cause they cast slower. As for UMD, i agree, this is a MUST, and again, tumble is unnecessary, and i dont even know why i put it there...just checked my build, and i didnt use tumble...i only have 2 skills hehe.

[FoxOne]

You can't be serious.

In end-game content with maximum ranks in concentration and a +7 stat modifier, usually running around +36 on my sorc, it's not uncommon to fail on rolls of lower than 13 when you're getting hit with delayed blast fireballs.

On my wizard that wears a concentration item pushing him into the 40s he still fails concentration checks.

Every sorc should have UMD. And tumble is unnecessary for a sorc.

You are absolutely right,there are plenty of lvl 1 slots to actually take tumble without sacrifing much and the reason the previous poster never fails his checks is because HE DOES have a lot invested in concentration.If no concentration you need quicken,that is the only way to bypass it altogether but you will be so gimped and i don't know of a sorc that NEEDS quicken really,unless 0 concentration...I have 7 concentration on my cleric but quicken ftw

[Aspenor]

Those are personal opinions. I do respect your opinion Asp, but i do not think that getting hit by ONE fireball during a quest justify the skill points used... And by the way, when i get PHYSICALLY hit, by a melee or ranged ATTACK, i do not fail my concentration really often...I do agree that spells are another story tho. But Scampb, you should try building what YOU think is good, this is the fastest way to become a good player. You don't know how many toons i rerolled.

And Asp, i do agree that wizzies need concentration even MORE than sorcs...cause they cast slower. As for UMD, i agree, this is a MUST, and again, tumble is unnecessary, and i dont even know why i put it there...just checked my build, and i didnt use tumble...i only have 2 skills hehe.

Well yes I agree they are opinions, but I can't imagine being without my concentration skill. I get way too much attention in combat to forego it.

Did you go a 10 int drow? I might understand better if you went with 2 skill points per level. I make all sorcs with 3.

[Yoseph]

I started a WF Sorcerer a few weeks ago and am loving it. Yes you take a hit to Charisma, but the ability to self heal is well worth the trade off. A lot depends on your playstyle. If you are going to solo a lot WF is a great choice so you can keep yourself alive. I started with the following stats:

(32 point)Str:8, Dex:8, Con:20, Int:8, Wis:6, Cha:16
(28 piont)Str:8, Dex:8, Con:18, Int;10, Wis:6, Cha:16
I put my one skll point into Concentration. UMD would be nice, but I really don't miss it and the main reason to have it on other races is for using Heal scrolls at higher levels (though with the 28 point build I would put the extra point into UMD).

For feats I went with the following:
1-Maximize
3-Empower
6-Extend
9-Force of Personality
12-Quicken (Planned, great for casting uninteruptable Reconstructs)
15-Spell Penetration (Planned)

If you don't want to go WF, you may want to consider Human over Drow. Again you take a Charisma hit (but not as bad as the WF) and don't take a Con hit. You also get the extra feat, skill point and the versatility/adaptability enhancement lines which will definitely help with UMD and can boot your Cha and Con.

I would suggest the following starting Stats for a Human:
(32 point)Str:8, Dex:8, Con:18, Int:8, Wis:8, Cha:18
(28 point)Str:8, Dex:8, Con:16, Int:10, Wis:8, Cha:18

You notice in all builds the only place I put points in is Con and Cha (and Int if 28 point). This is due to the fact that you want as many hit points as possible to keep you alive. Blur/Displacement/Stoneskin will be you AC as you are able to choose them along with Fearsome Docents/Robes. Invulnerability Docents/Robes are great also for the 5/Magic DR. Str and Dex don't matter and you can just equp +2/+4/+6 items when you are capable to. The low Wis will hurt until you can take Force of Personality to add your Charisma modifier to your will saves, but you can always equip Wis/Resist items to help at lower levels (definitely get a Remove Fear clickie).

The best bet in the end is to just roll one up and give it a try. That's what I did with my WF figuring I would just try it for a few levels and reroll as Human if I wasn't happy. I've enjoyed it from the very start and have no regrets whatsoever.

Also, I do not claim any of these builds as I my own. I got lots of information from these forums and guildmates before I made my decisioin. You'll probalby get lots of other suggestions too. Just go with what you feel is best for you. Good luck and enjoy!

[jmelanie7]

Well yes I agree they are opinions, but I can't imagine being without my concentration skill. I get way too much attention in combat to forego it.

Did you go a 10 int drow? I might understand better if you went with 2 skill points per level. I make all sorcs with 3.

Yes 10 int drow, i did put some more points in con. But i do wear a concentration item, which i think works pretty well so far. At some point i wanted to reroll my toon for gettign concentration, but honnestly...i rarely get a concentration check except when i am soloing, which i have to make ALOT. With the new mod being really about instakilling everything, i dont draw alot of aggro, which i must admit, helps me quite a bit. Again, you will have ALOT of concentration check to make if you stand still in your FW.... but if you stay in movement ALL the time...most of the mobs will just chase you...youll get hit by spells and ranged attacks, and teleporting mobs... But i never had BIG problems casting spells. Like failing a spell 2-3 times in a row... I am not saying it is useless to everyone...it just that i didnt take it and did something, which i think, can be pretty effective...without it. But the real secret is experimenting, it is awesome to ask for advices, but imho you should test some builds of your own, see how it works, and if you like it, even if ppl say you are gimped, keep em... Its all about fun. Arent games all about fun?

[Aspenor]

Arent games all about fun?

What is a game?

[jmelanie7]

What is a game?

hahaha, nice one.

[Desteria]

Which race and why? (I have drow available if this is an option for Sorc.)

For a starting player Human or Drow, while you can make soem strogn dwarf or WF build I fell with the hit to cha they are a mroe advanced build that you have to really know what you watn for, imo i woudl still perfer a humna or drow for an every day sorc.
Drow because they get the higest Cha in the game.
Human because they get MORE hp and a feat. now a 32pt human is best but my main is my original 28pt human, and she does very well.

Which alignment and why?

True nutral, why well you dotn need to equip PG weapons and the liek there are very few items that requier godo that you cant UMD passed anyway, the main one the res ring you can craft tier 2 shroud items with a better clicky or just UMD scrolls. True nutral lets you use stability at low leves for a good resistace item, Also it makes you imune to Unholy weapons not the pure eveil oens but the unholy ones and there are a few badies out there with these

Where should I put my ability points and skill points when I customize my build?

Drow:
Str: 6
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 8
Cha: 20

Human 28pt:
Str: 8
Dex: 8
Con: 16
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 18

Which feat/feats should I look at for the first couple?

feats are a little tricky tryign to rember what i had when leveling up was difrent form now bakc then i had MT/IMT, btu now I've droped them in favor of spell pen, I will list out imo best order to avoid having to feat swap.

Human bonus if Human: Force of Personality - Swap at HIGH level for skill focus(UMD) if it lets you hit a no fail poitn on res scrolls or heal scrolls, you should not really need the save bonus at high levels any more, btu the huge bonus against Hold person/monster at low/mid levels will be huge.

Human/Drow:
1-Extend
3-Maximize - Dotn turn it on yet not worth it on level one nukes btu you cant take Highten yet.
6-Highten - um there might be a cast 3rd level spell limitation if there is swap this to 9 cant rember been a long time.
9-Empower
12-Spell Pen
15-Gtr Spell pen
A Lot of people try to fit FoP in on a drow but Frankly I can see loseing any of the above feats

Any other valuable input?

Any builds that you want to share please feel free, or the links to any that you feel are strong. I will browse around and look at some of the builds as well.

Remember, I am really knew to the game so something you may not think is pertinant or that I may already know, I actually may not so all feedback is welcome.

YOU WILL DIE, you are squishy, some times you will simply take damage to fast fro a cleric react/keep up with, you will get crited and one shoted, (HEAVY FORT it your friend, getitng the Neck at level 9 from bam them upgradign to the Minos Helm at level 11 highly recomended) also your frined is distance betwene you and that oger they can one shot a lowlevel sorc with out a crit on hard/leet.

Spells are your life there are like a million posts here with various sorcs talking about then Read them all that is your homework due monday Note a lot fo these are from a high level perspective though for eg I dotn caryr any levle 2 nukes any more all buff/utility spells obviosly I did not start that way try and figure out what your end game goal is then figure out what you will need to help get you there.
Key spells to take first imo:
lvl1-Hyipno & a nuke(I'd go nyacs, then get MM at level 2 for when you learn what nyacs sucks on).
lvl2-Web or scroching ray ... later resist energy & Blur
lvl3-HASTE .... others dotn mater to much btu get haste you will ahve extend by now and it will rock.
lvl4-Wall of Fire or Phantasmal Killer depending if you want to instakill more or have the best damage spell in the game right away.
lvl5-CoC or Hold monster I dotn like hold any more why cast a one target hold when you could make a whole group dance
lvl6-Flest to stone or G-hero ... ones the second best buff in the game the other is way to much fun
lvl7-Disco ball Or FoD personaly I liek Disco ball first PK can hold you out for one mroe level till you get FoD
lvl8- meh who cares nothign stands out here you only get one play with them once you get here

[Fritz]

personally i think some things, like race, you should pick on what you like playing and think is fun.

even if drow are technically the best sorc in the game, but you cant stand being an elf, you probably wont really like your sorc very much.

personally i cant stand dwarves, even if they make the best hp/melee characters, ill never play one.


that said i think a halfling sorc with healing dragonmarks is just too awesome. i know they are gimp because after dragonmarks you only get 3 feats, which youd probably use on max, emp, and spell pen. and thats all youd have. so a drow would be better, but they just wouldnt be as much fun for me.

[evilgardengnome]

if you plan on doing any soloing a summon monster spell is very effective. it will draw aggro away from you so you can then cast other spells especially at lower levels. my scorpion saved me numerous times. i also recommend using a light mitheral magic shield. a sorc is not proficient with shields but this one has no spell failure, and no armor check penalty and raises you AC a couple points.

[Solmage]

Fine, everything is an 'opinion' so these are mine:

'The earth is of an overall round shape'
'Sorcerers are at a significant disadvantage without concentration, unless they are WFs with 16-20 con, specializing in blasting, then they're better served with quicken'
'Sorcerers are at a significant disadvantage without umd, unless they're WFs'
'We breathe oxygen to live'

[Electric_Pulses]

I started a WF Sorcerer a few weeks ago and am loving it. Yes you take a hit to Charisma, but the ability to self heal is well worth the trade off. A lot depends on your playstyle. If you are going to solo a lot WF is a great choice so you can keep yourself alive. I started with the following stats:

(32 point)Str:8, Dex:8, Con:20, Int:8, Wis:6, Cha:16
(28 piont)Str:8, Dex:8, Con:18, Int;10, Wis:6, Cha:16
I put my one skll point into Concentration. UMD would be nice, but I really don't miss it and the main reason to have it on other races is for using Heal scrolls at higher levels (though with the 28 point build I would put the extra point into UMD).

For feats I went with the following:
1-Maximize
3-Empower
6-Extend
9-Force of Personality
12-Quicken (Planned, great for casting uninteruptable Reconstructs)
15-Spell Penetration (Planned)

If you don't want to go WF, you may want to consider Human over Drow. Again you take a Charisma hit (but not as bad as the WF) and don't take a Con hit. You also get the extra feat, skill point and the versatility/adaptability enhancement lines which will definitely help with UMD and can boot your Cha and Con.

I would suggest the following starting Stats for a Human:
(32 point)Str:8, Dex:8, Con:18, Int:8, Wis:8, Cha:18
(28 point)Str:8, Dex:8, Con:16, Int:10, Wis:8, Cha:18

You notice in all builds the only place I put points in is Con and Cha (and Int if 28 point). This is due to the fact that you want as many hit points as possible to keep you alive. Blur/Displacement/Stoneskin will be you AC as you are able to choose them along with Fearsome Docents/Robes. Invulnerability Docents/Robes are great also for the 5/Magic DR. Str and Dex don't matter and you can just equp +2/+4/+6 items when you are capable to. The low Wis will hurt until you can take Force of Personality to add your Charisma modifier to your will saves, but you can always equip Wis/Resist items to help at lower levels (definitely get a Remove Fear clickie).

The best bet in the end is to just roll one up and give it a try. That's what I did with my WF figuring I would just try it for a few levels and reroll as Human if I wasn't happy. I've enjoyed it from the very start and have no regrets whatsoever.

Also, I do not claim any of these builds as I my own. I got lots of information from these forums and guildmates before I made my decisioin. You'll probalby get lots of other suggestions too. Just go with what you feel is best for you. Good luck and enjoy!

How do you save against stuff like delayed fireball blast, web and chain lightning? no dex or int w/ insightful reflexes, whats the point of having 32 or so more health when you cant save against the tough spells making it so that you take lets say 200 damage instead of 100?

[GeneralDiomedes]

Which race and why? (I have drow available if this is an option for Sorc.)
Which alignment and why?
Where should I put my ability points and skill points when I customize my build?
Which feat/feats should I look at for the first couple?

Race - if you have a really good healer in the group, then WF doesn't have THAT much of an advantage. For group scenarios, I would actually choose WF more for the immunities, not the self healing.

Alignment - I would personally choose True Neutral, as UMD will allow you to overcome any remaining alignment restrictions, except for the odd good only one like (I think) Ring of the Ancestors. Choosing Lawful Good is they only regret I have on any of my caster builds.

Ability points - Concentration is useful, despite any opinion to the contrary. People seem to forget that the DC is 10 + the spell level you are trying to cast + the dmg which is actually not that easy to beat when you actually NEED it (which is probably why people take Quicken). At higher levels, it actually becomes more useful for scroll activation.

For a Sorcerer, UMD is also a very nice choice and opens up a lot of avenues.

Feats - I would take Maximize right off the bat. There are enough nasty Trog shamans in the Harbor to make it worth your while.

Congratulations, you have yourself a cookie cutter Sorcerer

[Vhlad]

How do you save against stuff like delayed fireball blast, web and chain lightning? no dex or int w/ insightful reflexes, whats the point of having 32 or so more health when you cant save against the tough spells making it so that you take lets say 200 damage instead of 100?

protection + resist + fireshield + firestorm greaves = who cares ?
or
protection + resist + ring of djinn

and you can add the shroud absorption lines if you have ingredients to throw around

web, bladebarrier, etc etc = look where you are going & use break enchant.

Anyway, WF sorc is neat for the quickened reconstructs.... but end game any race will be able to get enough UMD to use heal scrolls.

You really don't need to bother with dex for a sorc in this game. There are no ranged touch attacks for spells.

Alignment = true neutral. I say this because many mobs do extra damage vs good aligned. And there are a lot of items that have taint of evil, some of which are very uber (litany of the dead trinket), so I would definitely avoid being good, for now. If druids ever come, turbine may throw a bunch of enemies that deal extra damage vs neutral at us, but really who knows.