Abbot.....

[Cowdenicus]

Well now I realize why I stopped running this raid. 10's of thousands of gold wasted and all I dealt with were bugs and twitch mechanics, uhm yeah.

Well this is the last time I try this without a revamp.

[Alexander_Illusioni]

Well now I realize why I stopped running this raid. 10's of thousands of gold wasted and all I dealt with were bugs and twitch mechanics, uhm yeah.

Well this is the last time I try this without a revamp.

And this is why many players feel using "tactics" to save 100's of thousands of gold (aka Shroud for clerics/casters) is not so bad.

[Cowdenicus]

And this is why many players feel using "tactics" to save 100's of thousands of gold (aka Shroud for clerics/casters) is not so bad.

If a cleric is spending hundreds of thousands of gold on a shroud run for consumables, it would be time for the cleric to reevaluate the quality of the melee characters they are with.

I have duoed Attareikos on normal with a ranger, and we burned him down 30% only costing me 25 heal scrolls, before the ranger ran out of arrows. At that point we called it quits.

[Ghoste]

Big difference between the shroud and the abbot. Plenty of money can be spent on both.

In the Abbot though, it only takes one party member not being uber and elite to make one little slip...theoretically the party gets more shots at the puzzles, but how many sp are they going to have by the time they finally get through all the puzzles successfully, if they ever do...

The Shroud is way different because a party can compensate for one or two people making even big mistakes. The Abbot takes so little, which happens out of the control of most of the party, to mess it up. And that's in the best of situations when there's no lag to deal with.

[Cowdenicus]

Big difference between the shroud and the abbot. Plenty of money can be spent on both.

In the Abbot though, it only takes one party member not being uber and elite to make one little slip...theoretically the party gets more shots at the puzzles, but how many sp are they going to have by the time they finally get through all the puzzles successfully, if they ever do...

The Shroud is way different because a party can compensate for one or two people making even big mistakes. The Abbot takes so little, which happens out of the control of most of the party, to mess it up. And that's in the best of situations when there's no lag to deal with.

agreed. I mean I dont even think a group of warforged could beat it.

[Jefro]

There is no reason a group of warforges cannot beat the abbott, right now it was lag and luck with tile room and does not matter what race you are for those.

[Targonis]

Most people like a challenge, but when an encounter uses a console game design, that is when many people get turned off.

Needing super-reflexes to get through an in-game puzzle goes against the normal game design of DDO. A character may need the super-reflexes, but the player should not.

Needing a 1 gigabit connection to the game servers and other players in the group/raid should not be needed to communicate properly. This is the problem with the goggles in the Abbot raid, where it really doesn't work well because voice chat is required, and lag can kill that. Not all people have a microphone for example.

DDO is about teamwork, but when a single person can ruin a raid, or when every person in the raid party needs to know every single detail of the raid ahead of time to beat it(Abbot raid again), that really doesn't work for me. Some people are good at floor puzzles, some people are not. A requirement that says that due to people being teleported at random, that everyone needs to be ready to handle every challenge in the game is why the Abbot raid in general was a failure in the eyes of the player base(with few exceptions).

Module 1: Velah was a teamwork puzzle that needed to be figured out. It took a while, but it happened.
Module 2: The Warforged Titan, and the green side puzzle needed to be figured out. It took a while, but it happened.
Module 3: The Demon Queen didn't take all that long for players to figure out, but still, it still allows/requires some teamwork.
Module 4: The Stormreaver is a pretty straight-up fight, but the puzzle aspect again allows for teamwork.
Module 5: The Black Abbot requires that every person in the raid know how to handle every puzzle. Teamwork has very little to do with it, since there is nothing that can be done to help if someone with slower reflexes gets stuck with the ice wand puzzle, or if someone doesn't have voice communication with zero lag to direct someone across the shifting floor puzzle.
Module 6: The entire raid is all about working together. If one person can't handle a puzzle, a rogue or arcane can unlock the doors to allow others to take care of it. If there is a fight, no one is expected to solo/duo by themselves.

Making the party split up and decide who does what will allow the players to play to their strengths, and avoid their weaknesses. It would be like saying that randomly, an arcane would either be forced to fight arcane oozes, or you might get lucky and have the melee classes take care of them. If it is a fully random thing, the players will avoid it.

[Nevthial]

I'm just curious, but what is the bare minimum number of persons needed for the Abbot raid?



I seem to be developing an "unhealthy" obsession with this raid and am exploring all options.

[Cowdenicus]

There is no reason a group of warforges cannot beat the abbott, right now it was lag and luck with tile room and does not matter what race you are for those.

That was me, razzing Ghoste.

[Crarites]

I'm just curious, but what is the bare minimum number of persons needed for the Abbot raid?



I seem to be developing an "unhealthy" obsession with this raid and am exploring all options.

I beleive you need 6 in order to be teleported to the puzzles.

[tihocan]

Correct, you need 6.

I don't mind paying some gold to repair to practice the puzzles. But trying to set up a group for it is just a waste of time, because noone joins.

[sirgog]

I'm just curious, but what is the bare minimum number of persons needed for the Abbot raid?



I seem to be developing an "unhealthy" obsession with this raid and am exploring all options.

Version 1 Abbot: 1
Version 2 Abbot: (never completed on any server, suspect 6)
Version 3 Abbot: 6 (was done by a group of 7 on the Japanese servers after ~150 tries)
Version 4 Abbot (current): 6 (has been done many times by a group on Sarlona, AFAIK they take 9 to 11 usually).


7 seems to be the optimal number for the raid, as anyone that doesn't get teleported tends to die anyway waiting for the party to solve/fail at the puzzles.

[Naso24]

What if you use 2 birthday cakes, one for shrine, 1 for res? Completeable?

[Jefro]

You gear gets damaged, spellpoints eaten my invisible wraiths because you do not finish the puzzles. Longer you are in, more it costs and can only kill him after all three are completed

[Cyr]

And this is why many players feel using "tactics" to save 100's of thousands of gold (aka Shroud for clerics/casters) is not so bad.

Seriously, worst group ever if you are using that much gold....worst group ever.

I consider it to have been a difficult run if clerics use 50 heal scrolls. As for rangers running out of ammo...if you do not come prepared for a quest then you deserve to fail.

Try having people pull out a bow and you will see your gold costs drop dramatically. Actually make sure people have enough ammo and proper bows to do max dps. Bring a bard (for pete's sake you only need one though people two adds almost nothing). Make the rogues range from 30 (they still get sneak). Insist that str. rangers range if your ratio of clerics to melee goes over 1:1. Make sure your casters have force missile wands for substained dps from them also (it's just like the clerics having to carry heal scrolls ). And if your leading bring a transmuting bow and two flame arrow wands and give them to the guy who ignored you when you asked if they had a proper ranged weapon and/or enough arrows

Proper party makeup in this quest makes it much cheaper also. You can go all melee dps...would not recommend it though if you want to do it cheaply. Try 2 arcanes (or one if your arcane is good) at least one with debuffs, 1 GOOD bard, 2 clerics, 3 tanks (with enough hp and weapons for the fiend), 3 rangers (or other effective ranged attackers), and that leaves 1-2 spots. You can go up one cleric and one mellee very easily or even easier you can go down any number of tanks (all the way to zero) and get more ranged attackers. Rogues are good in the quest, but usually just one (two at most) and they MUST have proper bows and arrows for harry. This type of combination will provide you with everything you need for all 5 parts with pretty much no difficulty.

Oh yeah and for those complaining about how long it takes not to do it 'cost effectivly' my guild did 2 runs last night straight up with more than half the party being pugs (so not cherry picked players just cherry picked classes/types). One run was around 80 minutes due to some slow afk's inbetween parts other was 62 minutes with people still crafting in each part and no one rushing people forward without buffs or any nonsense like that.

[Ringos]

I remember when the Shroud first came out, and I was warned that my Cleric was soon to be panhandling in the Marketplace to fund his runs. I bought a ton of Heal scrolls and dug out all of the big mana pots that I had been hoarding. I used some resources, but nothing that emptied my wallet. At the beginning, I'm sure the trail blazers spent a bunch of cash on pots and scrolls. After tactics became more honed, I seldom hear a grumble.

The Abbott (never been in there), from what I hear sounds totally different. I've never been much of a 'twitch' guy and I'm not 'uber, so my desire to go in and tackle what MUCH better players fail at consistantly has never been too high.

[Lyllie]

Try having people pull out a bow and you will see your gold costs drop dramatically. Actually make sure people have enough ammo and proper bows to do max dps. Bring a bard (for pete's sake you only need one though people two adds almost nothing). Make the rogues range from 30 (they still get sneak). Insist that str. rangers range if your ratio of clerics to melee goes over 1:1. Make sure your casters have force missile wands for substained dps from them also (it's just like the clerics having to carry heal scrolls ). And if your leading bring a transmuting bow and two flame arrow wands and give them to the guy who ignored you when you asked if they had a proper ranged weapon and/or enough arrows

You guys melee him?