Wizard vs. Sorc - New Player

[scampb]

Hey all. I am new to the class of wiz/sorc and relatively new to the game (couple months). What are the comparisons to a Sorc vs. Wiz? Pro's and cons are appreciated. I am going to double post this in the Sorc section as well so I get lots of feedback. I want to start one or the other and am totally lost. Thanks for any help, it is much appreciated.

[sigtrent]

Good stuff
Sorc: More mana, faster spell casting
Wizard: Can use all arcane spells, 3 Extra metamagic feats, More skill points (due to stat choices), can change spell selection every rest

Bad Stuff
Sorc: Get spells 1 level later than Wiz, Smaller spell selection, can only change one spell every 3 days and only at a steep gold cost
Wizard: Jeleous of sorc mana and fast casting


The lowdown
Sorcerers are incredibly powerful casters but they take careful planning and it helps to know which spells to pick and which metamagic feats are most usefull at a given level.
Wizards are fun since you can freely play around with lots of different spells and feats without as much commitment or decision making.

Generaly most folks recomend you try wizard first, and then make a sorcerer. I think that's pretty good, since you can make a few characters you might just make one of each and try them out. At low levels the wizard will probably seem stronger, but sorcs shine at the higher levels and in the hands of an expereinced player.

[Daemonis]

Hey Scampb,

I would personally advocate building, capping, and earning your 1750 faction favor, if you haven’t already , as a Wizard first to get a feel for your unique playing style, preferred skills/spells/metamagics, and to build some wealth with. Try everything out.

After you have had a chance to try everything out, and you do tend to more or less employ the same spells or school of spells, such as direct damage (nuking) or charms, THEN a Sorcerer with the larger spell point pool and faster spell cool downs (which is important for spamming those same, selected spells, over and over) may be the best fit for you.

For the record, Sorcerers only have a 10% faster casting rate than Wizards/Clerics. But they have also have 50% faster spell cool downs (which is important for spamming those same, selected spells, over and over) - so in effect, Sorcerer's can spam cast the same spell over and over about ~60% faster than a Wizard or Cleric. Wizards can off set the superior "fast" of Sorcerers by cycling casting between similar spells (e.g., cone of cold followed by freezing sphere; repeat) and/or select and use the Quicken meta-magic feat (spells cast 50% faster, can't be interrupted). So fast casting isn't really the where Sorcerer's outshine Wizards. It's 133% mana pool. That's it.

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I will tell you that I have recently retired both my capped 32.WF Necromancer (Wizard) and 32.WF Sorcerer in favor of what I believe will be my personal best, the Stelemagus. The Stelemagus build represents, for me, the culmination of my experience playing/tweaking many arcane builds based upon both the Drow/Warforged platforms and Wizardry/Sorcerery classes. Stelemagus was conceived, and is predicated on my belief that the versatile spell selection, meta-magic enhanced, self-sufficient, stealth- and UMD-capable Warforged Wizard offers maximum efficiency and effectiveness across a multitude of instances (i.e., when soloing, team quest adventuring, and PvP). I anticipate that the strategic power of Wizardry will become only more and more powerful as the game continues to mature (and more, more spells are added to the game). Having access to more higher level spells will be critical for end game content where I anticipate CC will be the critical path to power as Elite end-game mobs have unbelievable stats and hit points (nuking is less efficient). At this point, we can be pretty sure that dominate monster, mass hold monster, wail of the banshee among others will be available 9th level spells (Wish has been talked about too! much like the Wish cakes). I want them all!

We also have reached the point, at the end game, where Wizards have “enough” spell points, especially when they employ AoE effects (single cast, many mobs effected) and utilize stealth skills. With top end gear, Wizards can currently have 1800+ spell points (compared to 2400+ for similarly equiped Sorcerers).

A final thought: If you enjoy complexity, quest to quest fine-tuning, and less-selfish cooperative team play (as you can select more party buffs), you will probably enjoy playing a Wizard more than a Sorcerer. On the other hand, if you won’t get bored spam casting the same selected spells, a Sorcerer with those same spells will likely do it better than you owing to faster spell cooldowns and 133% spell point pool. This latter contention is especially evident for nuking!

Regards, -Daemonis.

[wolfy42]

I also agree that for a first caster you should go with either Cleric/Bard or Wizard (With Cleric and bard being easier to create a hybrid melee/caster character).

My favorite character so far this time playing has been my melee wizard.....pure wizard with no fighter levels etc using spells to be able to fight like a fighter, but still able to heal himself, cast haste, displacement etc.

Wizards have a wide variety of spells they can use and more spells they can have learned at the same lvl. This is a big advantage especially for new players who have not had a chance to try all the spells yet.

Also wizards get 4 extra feats (at lvl 1,5,10,15) which is a pretty big advantage since it opens up your normal feats (At lvl 1,3,6,9,12,15) to be used on non-metamagic feats (or getting more feats early on etc).

The sorcs advantage which is pretty large is a much larger spell point pool.

The wizards advantage is getting spells 1 lvl faster then sorcs, more spell slots then a sorc and the ability to switch spells at will. More feats then a sorc and int based vs cha (meaning a higher base stat for warforged or dwarven wizards).

[Natalae]

The sorcs advantage which is pretty large is a much larger spell point pool.

A capped elven wizard can hit 1800+ properly geared. Most of the sorcs I know have around 2100 sp, more if they wasted their feats on mental toughness'. Difference imo is casting time and ability to umd better on a sorceror. Wizard is a scalpel while the sorceror is a cleaver, poetry vs button mash.
Id recommend a sorc for beginner arcane users...less to manage and screw up. BTW i love wizards, sorcs not so much.

[Karranor]

Good info above.

Go wizard. Simply put they are much more versatile and you can experiment with any kind of caster you want. Then when/if you figure out a specialist, make em a sorc.

[Laith]

whichever one you start with, drow offers a good opportunity to try and see both sides of the fence.
to unlock drow, you must have one character (on the same server) reach 400 total favor, and talk to Nyx by the harbormaster's house

drow is an EXCELLENT choice of race for both sorc and wizzy, and 400 favor should come fairly early.

[MrCow]

For the record, Sorcerers only have a 10% faster casting rate than Wizards/Clerics. But they have also have 50% faster spell cool downs (which is important for spamming those same, selected spells, over and over)

For the record's record Sorcerers need half the amount of time to cast a spell compared to any other class (its far higher than 10% faster). If you time the lengthy creation type of spells you will see a sorcerer casts them in 2 seconds while any other class takes 4 seconds.

[Electric_Pulses]

For the record's record Sorcerers need half the amount of time to cast a spell compared to any other class (its far higher than 10% faster). If you time the lengthy creation type of spells you will see a sorcerer casts them in 2 seconds while any other class takes 4 seconds.

Sigh. Didn't you understand that the cooldown is the part that is 50% faster and not the actual casting of the spell? There is a difference, when my wiz casts acid fog w/ quicken on n my friend who is a sorc casts acid fog w/o quicken on I finish before him.

[FluffyCalico]

A capped elven wizard can hit 1800+ properly geared. Most of the sorcs I know have around 2100 sp, more if they wasted their feats on mental toughness'. Difference imo is casting time and ability to umd better on a sorceror. Wizard is a scalpel while the sorceror is a cleaver, poetry vs button mash.
Id recommend a sorc for beginner arcane users...less to manage and screw up. BTW i love wizards, sorcs not so much.

While its true that wizards cap around 1850SP a sorc with the same gear and feats is at about 2655SP

Simpily put a sorc is supposed to have 50% more Spells per day. DDO has interperted this as about 45% more spell points. I forget the exact SP cap for wizard but it comes out to a little less than 50% boost with same gear and feats and all the shroud goggles for both.

capped drow sorc

max sp: 2655

you need:
MT + IMT
4 SP Enhancements
Archmagi
T3 sp upgraded item
40 cha (max...obtained by t3 greensteel item, litany of the dead [abbot raid loot], +3 cha tome, 4 ability increases, 3 enhancements and a starting cha of 20)

Please make fair comparisons. 1800+ is very near the absolute cap for wizards currently. 2100SP for sorc would be one that just hit 16 had no feats for SP and no raid gear of any kind and probably just a regular old magi item.

[GlassCannon]

Good stuff
Sorc: More mana, faster spell casting
Wizard: Can use all arcane spells, 3 Extra metamagic feats, More skill points (due to stat choices), can change spell selection every rest

Bad Stuff
Sorc: Get spells 1 level later than Wiz, Smaller spell selection, can only change one spell every 3 days and only at a steep gold cost
Wizard: Jeleous of sorc mana and fast casting


The lowdown
Sorcerers are incredibly powerful casters but they take careful planning and it helps to know which spells to pick and which metamagic feats are most usefull at a given level.
Wizards are fun since you can freely play around with lots of different spells and feats without as much commitment or decision making.

Generaly most folks recomend you try wizard first, and then make a sorcerer. I think that's pretty good, since you can make a few characters you might just make one of each and try them out. At low levels the wizard will probably seem stronger, but sorcs shine at the higher levels and in the hands of an expereinced player.

My second char was a Sorc and I really messed her UMD up. I do recommend playing around with other classes first, with a Nuker as your 4th or 5th character(after you cap the others).

Progression I recommend: Paladin(pure), Fighter(pure), Cleric(pure, 18 wis 18 cha base, if possible. Do NOT make a melee cleric, this will totally screw up your experience using a caster), Wizard, Sorcerer, Rogue, Ranger. Ranger is last because they are the hardest class to build right and play well(having 4 stats to depend on instead of 1-2: DEX, WIS, CON, STR, in that order). Of course this progression is just to teach you the fullest extent of twitch DDO gaming with little to no deviation. If you get bored, TRY to get killed, but just when things look bleak for your character, turn the tables. I do this in party occasionally and get griped out for it by newbie clerics with OCD. They stop griping when the other newbie actually does get himself killed and I come save the day with my ubertwinked character and several hundred cure potions making a stone run.

If you have a question, ASK. The one thing Veterans hate the most is someone blindly charging in and getting totally nailed in a nearly unsalvageable situation. Ask questions, most of us are happy to answer.

As for the max Sorc SP you need: 6 months uninterrupted DDO time, 80 hours/week, or a Credit Card with $1,000 accessible and a plat farmer website(but after you spend those dollars on your card, you just may get BANNED for illegal activity in game, so don't do it). Max Wizard, same thing. Just settle with what you get and enjoy the game.

[FluffyCalico]

As for the max Sorc SP you need: 6 months uninterrupted DDO time, 80 hours/week, or a Credit Card with $1,000 accessible and a plat farmer website(but after you spend those dollars on your card, you just may get BANNED for illegal activity in game, so don't do it). Max Wizard, same thing. Just settle with what you get and enjoy the game.

Really? It takes 80hrs a week x 6 months to get a level 16 sorc with 2 tier 3 shroud items and a archmagi item? As that puts you within 25 SP of the max sorc SP pool. I seem to remember it taking about 6 weeks playing 30hrs a week.

[Ghoste]

Daemonis brings up an important difference that is often over looked: skill points. Used well, skill points can add another dimension to your character.