Knock Knock

[Eldamyr]

Recently, I was part of a Stormcleave group who was lacking a Rogue. My PC was multiclassed with 5 levels of Wizard so I memorized Knock for the locked chests. I unlocked the first locked chest with a roll of 19 + caster level. We come to the second chest and I cast knock once again. I spent my entire spell point bar trying to roll another 19 to open the chest. Now in PnP the Kock spell is supposed to "open stuck, barred, locked, held, or arcane locked doors. It also loosens welds, shackles, or chains (provided they serve to hold closures shut)."

I am of the opinion that knock should be changed to instant open instead of requiring a D20 Roll + caster level. Requiring this roll hurts multiclass casters characters aswell as goes against the original spell. If changing the spell is not an option, then a second possibility is to add practiced spellcaster to the feat list. This feat could affect the casters effective caster level by 4 when it comes to the check for Knock.

I do realize that some may see this is hurting rogues, but a party can not always rely on a perfect party make up. Just like other classes, a rogue may not always be available. Clerics are not always available. Wizards are not always available. Sorcerers are not always available. Sometimes you have to make do with what you have. So this suggested change is not to hurt once class but to help everyone.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. Time to enjoy the rest of the beautiful day.

[captain1z]

Im not keen on making knock an easy button for locked chests. You may end up with rogues with 1 level of wizard, who mem knock,jump or shield. actually you colud do this with any class and get the same results.

I hear ya not always is every class available.

Maybe make it so it works on any lock within 2 levels of your caster level

[MysticTheurge]

The D&D version of knock is incompatible with DDO's spellcasting, quest and grouping systems.

The D&D version of knock works because you're required to fill a certain number of slots with it in advance, and you don't know how many times you're going to need it.

In DDO, neither of those things is true. Not only would you only need to "waste" one spell slot on it and then have near-unlimited lock-opening capabilities, but you also know in advance whether or not you even need to waste that one slot on it, since you'll know whether there are even pick-able locks in the quest you're going on.

On top of that, D&D works with a static party. Your rogue isn't ever going to not be invited along because there's no traps, just a few locks and the wizard has knock. But in DDO, parties are far more dynamic. When you make knock a perfect lock-opener, you reduce the perceived role of rogues in the party for many quests, meaning fewer group leaders will invite or accept rogues into a party when they know that can perfectly open all the locks with just a simple knock spell.

(I'm also ignoring the fact that you wouldn't even really need to waste a spell slot and spell points on the spell because wands of knock would also be perfect lock-openers, since I have to assume that they'd remove wands and scrolls of knock from vendors if they actually made this change. Even so, find a wand or two of knock in a chest, and you'd be set.)

[Nevthial]

On top of that, D&D works with a static party. Your rogue isn't ever going to not be invited along because there's no traps, just a few locks and the wizard has knock. But in DDO, parties are far more dynamic. When you make knock a perfect lock-opener, you reduce the perceived role of rogues in the party for many quests, meaning fewer group leaders will invite or accept rogues into a party when they know that can perfectly open all the locks with just a simple knock spell.

Captain, MT an JF hit it on the head:

It would seriously hurt the game if there were more reasons for Rogues to be discriminated against.

[DNDJESS]

I don't recall any quests where knock or unlock are required to complete the quest. Unlock/knock is always for optional exp, and more often than not, extra treasure. Now you're asking that this extra treasure be given to you 100% of the time just for memorizing the correct spell?

The only change I could possibly see happening would be changing the DC check to your total character level instead of just your Wizard level (if that's not how it works already). And an argument could be made against that as well. DDO seems to do a lot to promote pure classes and discourage multiclassing. I wouldn't expect them to do much to improve multiclassed characters at this point.

[JFeenstra]

I don't recall any quests where knock or unlock are required to complete the quest. Unlock/knock is always for optional exp, and more often than not, extra treasure. Now you're asking that this extra treasure be given to you 100% of the time just for memorizing the correct spell?

The only change I could possibly see happening would be changing the DC check to your total character level instead of just your Wizard level (if that's not how it works already). And an argument could be made against that as well. DDO seems to do a lot to promote pure classes and discourage multiclassing. I wouldn't expect them to do much to improve multiclassed characters at this point.

VoN 5 requires knock or unlock

there's a couple other quests as well

shroud part 3 doesn't require it, but it's pretty necessary to have at least one person who can open doors if you want all 4 chests

[Gray_Hawk]

I don't recall any quests where knock or unlock are required to complete the quest. Unlock/knock is always for optional exp, and more often than not, extra treasure. Now you're asking that this extra treasure be given to you 100% of the time just for memorizing the correct spell?

The only change I could possibly see happening would be changing the DC check to your total character level instead of just your Wizard level (if that's not how it works already). And an argument could be made against that as well. DDO seems to do a lot to promote pure classes and discourage multiclassing. I wouldn't expect them to do much to improve multiclassed characters at this point.

Hmm Von?

[dameron]

The D&D version of knock is incompatible with DDO's spellcasting, quest and grouping systems.

The D&D version of knock works because you're required to fill a certain number of slots with it in advance, and you don't know how many times you're going to need it.

Or you could spend a couple of days a month using your automatic "Scribe Scroll" feat to create a cheap store of Knock scrolls to take on adventures.

I'm all for giving arcanes back their Knock spell as long as they restore Rogues to their proper place by, maybe, fixing stealth and implementing WotAII in a useful manner.

[MysticTheurge]

Or you could spend a couple of days a month using your automatic "Scribe Scroll" feat to create a cheap store of Knock scrolls to take on adventures.

Except in D&D, crafting items costs real, significant resources.

So even choosing to do this, you're giving up something else you could be having instead.

[dameron]

Except in D&D, crafting items costs real, significant resources.

So even choosing to do this, you're giving up something else you could be having instead.

Crafting items can cost real, significant resources, however crafting a 2nd level spell scroll at caster level 3 doesn't for any mid to high level caster.

Knock scrolls = 2 × 3 × 25 = 125/2 = 64 gp and 5 xp

Cheap and easy. Every wizard with Knock in their spellbook can create them for a pittance.

I wouldn't blink an eye if a 16th level wizard had a ready supply of knock scrolls, say 3-5 per adventure. Why wouldn't they, barring carrying even better magic (Passwall and such)?

[JFeenstra]

Im not keen on making knock an easy button for locked chests. You may end up with rogues with 1 level of wizard, who mem knock,jump or shield. actually you colud do this with any class and get the same results.

I hear ya not always is every class available.

Maybe make it so it works on any lock within 2 levels of your caster level

they'd have to take 3 levels of wiz, but if knock worked that way they could just buy X knock wands/scrolls and UMD them without wasting levels in the class

[Lorien_the_First_One]

As per PnP rules, Knock is supposed to be an auto-open. No roll. It should even open magic and complex locks beyond the best rogue. Heck, it should even open welded metal.

It should be fixed.