Halfling Ranger/Rogue Mod 7 (Thoughts?)

[EinarMal]

I am sort of biased towards Halflings, I think they are kind of cool. I was wondering what people though of the following build. The idea is to use sneak attacks (eventually with dual Radiance Khopesh) to put out insane DPS.

Halfling Ranger 11/Rogue 4/Fighter 1

Str 16 (32=16 +4 Levels +2 Tome +6 Item +2 Rams +2 Rage)
Dex 14 (24=14 +2 Tome +2 Enh. +6 Item)
Con 16 (26=16 +2 Tome +6 Item +2 Rage)
Int 8
Wis 10 (16=10 + 6 Item)
Cha 8

1-Rogue
2-Fighter
3 thru 13-Ranger
14 thru 16-Rogue

Feats:
Dodge
(FB)Khopesh
Mobility
Spring Attack
IC Slashing
Power Attack
OTWF

Sneak:
2d6 +6(Rogue) +8(Halfling) +3(Gloves)=24

FE:6 +3(Enh)=9

To Hit:
BAB 15
Str 11
GH 4
Weapon 5
Haste 1
Halfling 1
TWF -2
PA -5
+30

Damage:
Str 11
Weapon 5
PA 5
FE 9
Sneak 24
54/48

With Radiance procing 20% of the time each swing should be pretty awesome DPS output. Once that lands you are getting constant sneak attacks for 24 more damage per swing.

[CSFurious]

i like 10 rogue/6 ranger better

i do not know if that is enough sneak attack damage to warrant those rogue levels & enhancements

also, with 8 int, your skill points & rogue abilities will be somewhat limited

i also question that starting str, i.e., is there really that big of a difference between 30 & 32 str at end-game to justify the build points necessary to start at 16?

finally, i think that a good tempest build would be an elf who has dragonmarks for displacement & dual-wields longswords (the one i just rolled up lol)

[EinarMal]

i like 10 rogue/6 ranger better

i do not know if that is enough sneak attack damage to warrant those rogue levels & enhancements

also, with 8 int, your skill points & rogue abilities will be somewhat limited

i also question that starting str, i.e., is there really that big of a difference between 30 & 32 str at end-game to justify the build points necessary to start at 16?

finally, i think that a good tempest build would be an elf who has dragonmarks for displacement & dual-wields longswords (the one i just rolled up lol)

Well prior to Mod 7, a level 9 Rogue with enhancements would net you ~24 sneak attack damage, so I have close to the same sneak attack "power" as a Mod 6 level 9 Rogue.

Don't really care about Rogue skills, would probably do open locks as the only real Rogue skill this is a DPS combat build.

Str is bread and butter +1 to-hit and damage have to max it on a DPS build.

Elfs, ugh, I can UMD blur/displacement/stoneskin so don't need to spend feats on dragon marks, plus longswords are terrible compared to a khopesh.

[EinarMal]

i like 10 rogue/6 ranger better

I actually already have a Rogue/Tempest Dwarf build, this is an alternate way of doing it with Halfling taking advantage of the racial halfling sneak enhancements with a bit of Rogue thrown in.

You could also go Rogue 10/Ranger 6 on this build, it would require more dex, and you lose out on some cool Ranger stuff that I wanted to try in this variant.

I think personally that Rogue 10/Ranger 6 or Ranger 11+/Rogue X are pretty close builds power wise.

[Illuminati]

I've been bopping this build around in my head for quite a bit of time.

The halfling enhancements will definately be a great compliment to 4 rogue levels, no need for more IMO since you end up 2d6 + 14. The radiance weps as well.

11 Ranger, 4 Rogue, 1 Monk

12 Str (6 pts) (6 Item, 2 Spell) = 20
17 Dex (8 pts) (5 Enh, 6 Item, 4 Level, 2 Favor Tome) = 34 Dex
14 Con (6 Pts) (6 Item) = 20
14 Int (6 Pts)
14 Wis (6 Pts) (6 Item) = 20

You end up with some incredible AC, great HP, and feats:

Dodge, WF, Mobility, IC: Pierce, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise (wounding mode), Power Attack (free monk feat).

The other I've been thinking about is a Elf version:

6 Ranger / 4 Rogue / 6 Fighter

Hi Str, Radiance, with some great skills.

[CSFurious]

everyone & their mother's brother wants a khopesh

longswords are a smart alternative as they are cheap/plentiful & elves have enhancements for them

good longswords & even scimitars are way easier to obtain than khopeshes & rapiers; both can still do comparable damage

in a str-based ranger, longswords can do good damage

dragonmarks are tough to take as feats, but i know that the ability to stay almost constantly displaced (hard to do with scrolls as they last only for 30 seconds) is invaluable for a 275 to 300 hitpoint melee at end-game

also, if any build can afford to take dm's, it is either a ranger or a fighter as both classes get the most "free" feats

anyway, it is smart to combine the extra halfling sneak-attack damage with the speed of the tempest, i would just add more sneak-attack damage (the more the better IMO)

Well prior to Mod 7, a level 9 Rogue with enhancements would net you ~24 sneak attack damage, so I have close to the same sneak attack "power" as a Mod 6 level 9 Rogue.

Don't really care about Rogue skills, would probably do open locks as the only real Rogue skill this is a DPS combat build.

Str is bread and butter +1 to-hit and damage have to max it on a DPS build.

Elfs, ugh, I can UMD blur/displacement/stoneskin so don't need to spend feats on dragon marks, plus longswords are terrible compared to a khopesh.

[EinarMal]

I've been bopping this build around in my head for quite a bit of time.

The halfling enhancements will definately be a great compliment to 4 rogue levels, no need for more IMO since you end up 2d6 + 14. The radiance weps as well.

11 Ranger, 4 Rogue, 1 Monk

12 Str (6 pts) (6 Item, 2 Spell) = 20
17 Dex (8 pts) (5 Enh, 6 Item, 4 Level, 2 Favor Tome) = 34 Dex
14 Con (6 Pts) (6 Item) = 20
14 Int (6 Pts)
14 Wis (6 Pts) (6 Item) = 20

You end up with some incredible AC, great HP, and feats:

Dodge, WF, Mobility, IC: Pierce, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise (wounding mode), Power Attack (free monk feat).

The other I've been thinking about is a Elf version:

6 Ranger / 4 Rogue / 6 Fighter

Hi Str, Radiance, with some great skills.

Monks I would like to see more info on them and how they work in DDO, I haven't really figured them into any builds. I am anti-finesse so I would never do the first build.

I have a Dwarf Ranger 6/Rogue 8/Fighter 2 which would probably be somewhat similar to the second build, more sneak attack damage, less feats. I love it so far I just hit level 13 and it is a monster.

[Xithos]

Cool build, would be nice to see an enhancement breakdown for it and some ideas as to how you are gearing it out. Anyway, I wouldn't discount elves so quickly for a viable build; they use a khopesh just as well as the next guy (if thats what you are going for) and I have been told that if you can find a way to work extend spell into your build that you can use it with the displacement dragonmark. I can UMD a displacement scroll, but the duration on it is terrible and it is one other thing to keep up in between my shield clicky and CE and sometimes even haste if my group's caster is lazy. Although, you are clearly going for a backstabber and the halfling enhancements make this a better choice than elf from a damage perspective. The halfling enhancements for the new mod are awesome and with the introduction of monks I finally have a reason to make a halfling dex build (14 ranger / 1 rogue / 1 monk) to get a crazy AC (Dwarven armor mastery and a daggertooth belt w/ chaosgarde just meant I was losing a feat and damage to have equivalent AC).

[EinarMal]

everyone & their mother's brother wants a khopesh

This actually used to be true (people still want them) but since they can be crafted the cost of good bursting khopesh is much less now. In the end for a build hitting this hard to get a lot of sneak attacks (with longswords or khopesh) crafted Radiance is the way to go even though it is a grind and a pain.

[EinarMal]

Cool build, would be nice to see an enhancement breakdown for it and some ideas as to how you are gearing it out. Anyway, I wouldn't discount elves so quickly for a viable build; they use a khopesh just as well as the next guy (if thats what you are going for) and I have been told that if you can find a way to work extend spell into your build that you can use it with the displacement dragonmark. I can UMD a displacement scroll, but the duration on it is terrible and it is one other thing to keep up in between my shield clicky and CE and sometimes even haste if my group's caster is lazy. Although, you are clearly going for a backstabber and the halfling enhancements make this a better choice than elf from a damage perspective. The halfling enhancements for the new mod are awesome and with the introduction of monks I finally have a reason to make a halfling dex build (14 ranger / 1 rogue / 1 monk) to get a crazy AC (Dwarven armor mastery and a daggertooth belt w/ chaosgarde just meant I was losing a feat and damage to have equivalent AC).

Yeah honestly with the con penalty and lack of toughness enhancements I just can't see elf being that good of a choice. What I do with scrolls on my Rogue is use Blur/Stoneskin a lot and use displacement scrolls when I know that it is going to be an especially tough fight.

If I wasn't going to play with the Halfling sneak enhancements then Dwarf would be the next best alternative to me.

I will work up some enhancements at some point soon and add them in....

[CSFurious]

i forgot about the shroud

but, after the 2nd-tier, i decided to just trade my larges for uber-stuff for now, i.e., i have a bloodstone & several +2 tomes now lol

i will eventually grind for the larges, but right now i would rather do other things in-game

This actually used to be true (people still want them) but since they can be crafted the cost of good bursting khopesh is much less now. In the end for a build hitting this hard to get a lot of sneak attacks (with longswords or khopesh) crafted Radiance is the way to go even though it is a grind and a pain.

[EinarMal]

i forgot about the shroud

but, after the 2nd-tier, i decided to just trade my larges for uber-stuff for now, i.e., i have a bloodstone now & several +2 tomes now lol

i will eventually grind for the larges, but right now i would rather do other things in-game

Yeah trading those right now when people are in a frenzy is a very wise financial move

[Illuminati]

Yep =)

I know a few guys with some 42 pt builds coming as soon as mod 7 hits from selling larges =p

[Taerdra]

Well, they haven't released enough details yet...

But I think Monk is going to be huge for STR-based TWF builds and Ranger builds especially. The WIS AC bonus and ease of getting a +6 WIS item will allow you to wear robes and still get a very nice AC on a STR build. It is very possible depending on your Ranger build that DEX + WIS >= DEX finesse build. For example it is conceivable to get a 24 DEX and 22 WIS with dual +6 items on a STR17 or 18 Ranger build. That's +13 AC versus the DEX finesse build +12 AC assuming a 34 DEX. In other words, viola a STR build with comparable AC and robe flexibility.

Now certainly the DEX + WIS on the finesse build can further push AC, but the additional damage from a STR and the boosts for STR that are in game will more than trump the added AC imho.

[EinarMal]

Well, they haven't released enough details yet...

But I think Monk is going to be huge for STR-based TWF builds and Ranger builds especially. The WIS AC bonus and ease of getting a +6 WIS item will allow you to wear robes and still get a very nice AC on a STR build. It is very possible depending on your Ranger build that DEX + WIS >= DEX finesse build. For example it is conceivable to get a 24 DEX and 22 WIS with dual +6 items on a STR17 or 18 Ranger build. That's +13 AC versus the DEX finesse build +12 AC assuming a 34 DEX. In other words, viola a STR build with comparable AC and robe flexibility.

Now certainly the DEX + WIS on the finesse build can further push AC, but the additional damage from a STR and the boosts for STR that are in game will more than trump the added AC imho.

Yeah perhaps waiting until Monks come out would be a good idea, I just don't know how to account for them yet.

[jakeelala]

equivilient longswords with elf enhancements are about = to khopeshes. plus you gain a feat which is awesome.

khopeshes aren't as good as everyone thinks due to racial weapon enhancements....

[Mhykke]

equivilient longswords with elf enhancements are about = to khopeshes. plus you gain a feat which is awesome.

khopeshes aren't as good as everyone thinks due to racial weapon enhancements....

Maybe better to say that khopeshes aren't as overpowering as people think, b/c you're saying that w/ racial enhancements, a weapon is comparable to a khopesh.

[EinarMal]

equivilient longswords with elf enhancements are about = to khopeshes. plus you gain a feat which is awesome.

khopeshes aren't as good as everyone thinks due to racial weapon enhancements....

Well given the concept is a halfling to take advantage of Tempest + FE + Green Steel Khopesh + Sneak attack enhancements it is going to be hard to convince the trainer to let me take the elf racial enhancements.

[Illuminati]

Well, they haven't released enough details yet...

But I think Monk is going to be huge for STR-based TWF builds and Ranger builds especially. The WIS AC bonus and ease of getting a +6 WIS item will allow you to wear robes and still get a very nice AC on a STR build. It is very possible depending on your Ranger build that DEX + WIS >= DEX finesse build. For example it is conceivable to get a 24 DEX and 22 WIS with dual +6 items on a STR17 or 18 Ranger build. That's +13 AC versus the DEX finesse build +12 AC assuming a 34 DEX. In other words, viola a STR build with comparable AC and robe flexibility.

Now certainly the DEX + WIS on the finesse build can further push AC, but the additional damage from a STR and the boosts for STR that are in game will more than trump the added AC imho.

74 AC, nuff said =p

That may be worth a little less damage. Think Hling 12 Ranger/3Pal/1Monk.

[Taerdra]

74 AC, nuff said =p

That may be worth a little less damage. Think Hling 12 Ranger/3Pal/1Monk.

Yeah, it's a great number and I know how to get there...

My point is a simple one: 64ish AC with a fully boosted 35+ STR from Madstone, etc., or 74ish AC with 20 STR, etc.? The DEX and Halfling gives you a net 9 advantage at best, and let's face it mobs are only hitting you on a 1 either way...

So... STR build, thanks. 'Nuff said.