WF Hate :(

[Missing_Minds]

Your experience, not mine.

I've payed with Stash a lot (as he's my guildy), he pwns. Warchanters are beasts, if yours was notyou either lacked the gear, build or playstyle to make it good, but that's you. A warforgedchanter is an incredibly powerful build, as long as you know how to play it right. I have yet to see Stash get squished, or running for his life. Same for the other warchanters in my guild.

IMO, Spellsinger < Warchanter, but again, that's my playstyle.

For the most part I find that the bard players in general never play the class to the full potential ever. I've found only one or two bards really worth a darn in the time I've been here. The class has so much potential but in the hands of people that don't realize this, they just stink. (which is true enough in PnP as well)

Honestly, I've pugged with maybe 6 or 8 warchanters, and frankly, all of them stunk save one and he was mediocre at best. I'm pretty certain I've not ran with a stash yet though, so I'm going to have to keep an eye open for him, to watch and learn to see what my opinion ends up being.

As for the WF hate... doesn't fly with my guild, we treat them as equals.

[Gunga]

So...what? You're saying because I made a vid highlighting one playstyle that it's the only playstyle I'm capable of? No sir, but it does sound like you're saying barb is the only melee playstyle you know. That's what they call "projecting". You are projecting your own shortsighted attitude onto others.

Nah. I suggested the OP let go of the pie-in-the-sky hopes he has for his warchanter and build a wf sorc. They are better suited to do well in a normal questing party (ie not everyone in sneak mode until the bard can fascinate everything). As you can see in my sig, I have an assortment of classes that I haven't had to continuously reroll. But that sneak thing you got down pat man. Grats.

[Ghoste]

I didn't call anyone a moron, you brought that up. A screen shot of a bard running in to play a song doesn't cut it for me, sport. Maybe you can sneak past the pitfiend, and craft yourself some goggles while the meleers and rangers take him out. You sound like a friend who made up a battlecaster wiz/fighter and called himself a meleer. Have fun, Jacko. It's a game.

Exactly! That's what people are trying to tell you through all the nonsense about deleting characters that don't measure up to your glorious standards. And again with you projecting your own inability to use various playstyles onto me! If you think you're making a point with that...well you are. About your own inability to use different playstyles.

[Aspenor]

Lot's of talk. I'm not sure what your definition of pwns is, but bards are whoaful meleers.

If by "woeful" you mean a TWF human bard dual wielding khopesh's that can out DPS 98% of barbarians and 100% of fighters and paladins then, yes....bards are quite woeful at fighting when built properly.

[dragnmoon]

Edited out because Asp did

Asp what Kind of build you got?..... Though I can do Mega Dmg against the Pit Fiend and not get aggro...*got to love subtle BS* His wild swings do not allow me to stay in long because even when he is not directly targeting me I get hit hard!

[Ghoste]

Nah. I suggested the OP let go of the pie-in-the-sky hopes he has for his warchanter and build a wf sorc. They are better suited to do well in a normal questing party (ie not everyone in sneak mode until the bard can fascinate everything). As you can see in my sig, I have an assortment of classes that I haven't had to continuously reroll. But that sneak thing you got down pat man. Grats.

You also suggested I'm incapable of any other playstyle. Don't go jumping around pretending I'm talking about a different post. You know as well as I do what you said and where you said it. Don't hide from your own words.

[Aspenor]

Asp what Kind of build you got?..... Though I can do Mega Dmg against the Pit Fiend and not get aggro...*got to love subtle BS* His wild swings do not allow me to stay in long because even when he is not directly targeting me I get hit hard!

You have to be willing to step out for a second and heal yourself, and not stand in there like the low-INT, chubby ones. My drow rogue has 200 hit points and does just fine.

Oh yeah, stand behind him. Like literally behind him. You'd be amazed how much it helps.

[Missing_Minds]

If by "woeful" you mean a TWF human bard dual wielding khopesh's that can out DPS 98% of barbarians and 100% of fighters and paladins then, yes....bards are quite woeful at fighting when built properly.

sounds tasty.. I assume higher physical stats and lesser mental ones?

[AkromaAoW]

Most times, I care very little what members a party has. As for warforged, I always carry a repair critical wand, just in case .

[dragnmoon]

You have to be willing to step out for a second and heal yourself, and not stand in there like the low-INT, chubby ones. My drow rogue has 200 hit points and does just fine.

Oh yeah, stand behind him. Like literally behind him. You'd be amazed how much it helps.

yeah I do that...... And That is what I have been doing....

And no matter how many times I tell the Cleric..Don't heal me and waste your resources.. you will be amazed how many times they still do and yell at me for wasting their resources!!!..ARGH!!!.

I have the same HPs..

[Aspenor]

sounds tasty.. I assume higher physical stats and lesser mental ones?

Yes, essentially low-ish charisma (only there for the SP for self-buffing with displacement, rage and hast), high con, high strength. With bard buffs and spell buffs, he will easily outstrip almost ever melee class in the game (assuming of course the bard can buff himself, and the others cannot, I'm talking self-buffed DPS).

[Gunga]

If by "woeful" you mean a TWF human bard dual wielding khopesh's that can out DPS 98% of barbarians and 100% of fighters and paladins then, yes....bards are quite woeful at fighting when built properly.

Don't make me squelch you again...I just took you off. I didn't say my bard couldn't dps. I said he couldn't melee...more than just dps. Junk saves, ac and hp. There are easier ways to build a great meleer than to go bard...although if you're looking for a challenge there it is. You think you're even gonna come close to my Human TWF Barbarian w/khopeshes? You're entitled to your opinion.

[Aspenor]

yeah I do that...... And That is what I have been doing....

And no matter how many times I tell the Cleric..Don't heal me and waste your resources.. you will be amazed how many times they still do and yell at me for wasting their resources!!!..ARGH!!!.

I have the same HPs..

Then probably you get torn up by the blade swarms, I made sure to get out early to avoid the blade swarms and devote those times to helping keep the beefy dwarves standing.

[Gunga]

You also suggested I'm incapable of any other playstyle. Don't go jumping around pretending I'm talking about a different post. You know as well as I do what you said and where you said it. Don't hide from your own words.

You suggested playstyle, not me. You mentioned morons, not me. You think bards are great meleers, not me. Have fun, Bud.

[Aspenor]

Don't make me squelch you again...I just took you off. I didn't say my bard couldn't dps. I said he couldn't melee...more than just dps. Junk saves, ac and hp. There are easier ways to build a great meleer than to go bard...although if you're looking for a challenge there it is. You think you're even gonna come close to my Human TWF Barbarian w/khopeshes? You're entitled to your opinion.

Ooooo I'm shakin in my boots....

Easy? Maybe. Easy builds are for the weak of heart and the weak of imagination.

[Ghoste]

So what...suddenly barbs DO have great AC? I'll take a perma displaced, perma stone skinned, perma hasted, self healing bard over a barb any day. Barbs aren't complete without a cleric to babysit them. Bards can fill the same role without the cleric.

[dragnmoon]

Then probably you get torn up by the blade swarms, I made sure to get out early to avoid the blade swarms and devote those times to helping keep the beefy dwarves standing.

No that is not a problem... I get out before that...

What I am saying.. When I do go in... I tell all the clerics not to heal me..I can handle myself... And there is always one that still does and then yells at me for using up their resources...

[Gunga]

Ooooo I'm shakin in my boots....

Easy? Maybe. Easy builds are for the weak of heart and the weak of imagination.

Ok. You're squelched again. There's no need to insult anyone here, we're just discussing a topic that you're very worked up over. I'll give you another chance in a couple weeks.

[Ghoste]

You suggested playstyle, not me. You mentioned morons, not me. You think bards are great meleers, not me. Have fun, Bud.

Champ, go back to the post YOU MADE about my vid and the inferences you made from that. What a short memory you have...

I know I used the actual word "morons" first. Read that post again, then read your previous ones. I was referring to your condescending approach you have held for those who can't see as clearly as you what builds are worth keeping and which ones aren't. My point was that the people you are talking to aren't morons and don't need you to tell them which builds they're allowed to keep, and which ones they need to delete. By telling them that kind of garbage, one might getthe impression you think they're too much of a moron to make those decisions for themselves.

Get it now?

[Aspenor]

Since I don't really believe that I'm squelched, I'll take this time to point out I'm not worked up at all. I just find it amusing that people think that just because they can't get something to work doesn't mean another person can.

I melee the pit fiend with an 9sorc/4pali/2rog.