Shroud Weapons just made two great fighter feats expire

[Twerpp]

That is if they haven't already met their expiration date...

Ok so now our weapons have an extra 10 dice or so on our crits...how many of you are still running weapon spec/grtr weapon spec on your fighters? I think it needs an enhancement line at high levels to stay viable or a re-look at the feat entirely. +2 damage per feat is not very rewarding when elite vermin has 800hp and 3/4 bab classes can farm for weapons with more dice than Vegas.

I only see two possible but not really even that great reasons to keep this around:

1. Weapon spec +2 damage is nice at lower levels

2. You are using picks, where +4 damage equals +16 damage on a crit (ok if you built purely for deathnip this is a good reason)

Dear devs can you PUUUH-LLEAASE look at these feats or give us some new ones? This is no longer scaled correctly by its pure PnP implementation you need to DDO-ify it.

[maddmatt70]

Greater weapon spec is still viable. Yeah good point it is getting diluted, but it is still good to have for every pure fighter. having an additional +4 to damage is comparable to 2 rangers favored enemy, but the exception is it works on everybody. Are you also saying favored enemy isnt worth it? With the number of feats a pure fighter or close to pure fighter gets they might as well pick it up. It is especially nice for twf fighters as the damage applies to each hand.

I do agree with you that either superior two weapon specialization should come into being and/or some sort of enhancement to weapon specialization.

[Snoggy]

With the number of feats a pure fighter or close to pure fighter gets they might as well pick it up.

That's the important part right there. There simply aren't that many choices for class based feats. What other options are really there? And are they more meaningful a feat investment than this?

The answer to my second question is at best "not really" at worst "no."

[Strykersz]

It's supposed to be comparable to Barb Rage. It is(barb's get an additional +1 to damage but rage should have enough penalties attached to balance it out) except for the fact that they added crit rage and nothing comparable for fighters.

[Twerpp]

That's the important part right there. There simply aren't that many choices for class based feats. What other options are really there? And are they more meaningful a feat investment than this?

The answer to my second question is at best "not really" at worst "no."

Yeah I hear that, and no fighter love in sight or mention of any new feats let alone feats exclusive to fighters.

MadMatt I hear ya on favored enemy but that's a little different. There are no pre-reqs other than being a ranger, there are two pre-reqs for grtr weap spec. Also they do have an enhancement line and even had it prior to the insane hp inflation (back then mob hp inflation was only "outrageous", it hadn't yet reached "insane", or the previous mods "ludicrous"). Favored enemy is great because it helps a ranger metagame, most rangers favored enemies change. Every. Single. Mod.

And yep Stryker DDO ganked and pimped out like a cheap ho that which was once an awesome fighter prestige class with probably the most comprehensive pre-req list of feats...and gave it to the Barbarian for the cost of.....6 AP? Nice.

It would be nice if they at least would offer us at least the crit multiplier if not range, and I would be happy to even attune it to only one specific weapon, not the whole range of either slash or pierce etc like how they implemented improved crit.

[Dungnmaster001]

Yeah I hear that, and no fighter love in sight or mention of any new feats let alone feats exclusive to fighters.

That's because they've been working on Pally stuff for this mod. Next mod I'm betting will be all about fighters. New enhancements at the least and probably new feats also. They likely just didn't want to split their attention between too many classes for one mod. Rogues and Pallys got the love this time, Fighters are about due now. So far we've gotten improvements to Bards; Rangers, Rogues, and Paladins...Casters are already sickeningly powerful so I'm betting they get looked at last.

Also a note about feats exclusive to fighters. I'm wholeheartedly AGAINST this. 3.5 made very few things exclusive to one class over another for a reason. Now making new feats that qualify as fighter bonus feats: good, Making feats that have multiple feat pre-reqs (i.e. whirlwind attack): fine, but feats aren't meant to be exclusive to one class. Among the few exceptions are the weapon specialization line, and that was only because fighters were among the only pure melee class that had no way to boost damage output (i.e. barbs rage, paladins smite evil, etc)

just my 2c

[maddmatt70]

It would be nice if they at least would offer us at least the crit multiplier if not range, and I would be happy to even attune it to only one specific weapon, not the whole range of either slash or pierce etc like how they implemented improved crit.

I am heavily against a crit range bonus to fighters. I think classes should be different and have different + and -s associated with them. Barbarians are the best critters in ddo which is fine with me. The devs are trying to make pallys a 5-6 attack specialist in other words the best dps over a 15-20 sec period starting with the new mod (the benefits of this are twofold high dps and gathers aggro on in general a high ac char) - they have not succeeded yet in that goal as the pallys can attest. Rogues get the sneak damage, one shot kill effects, etc. and Rangers are the best against certain enemies and have a general attack speed bonus and are great with ranged combat. So where does this leave fighters? In my opinion the fighter's dps is all about consistency with a specific weapon type (slash, bludgeon, and pierce) against every type of opponent whether the opponent is uncrittable, has heavy fort, isnt favored, isnt evil, etc. The fighter doesn't always translate in ddo's new release a mod every 3 months formula, but the goal should be to just increase a fighter damage in general with the favored weapon type and I would prefer a combination of feats and enhancements because the mini prestige classes are exciting and fun. For instance, an enhancment line which provides +4 to damage and +1 to hit with greater weapon specialization weapons and some sort of flavor like for instance proficiency with all exotic slashing weapons if the character has greater weapon specialization slashing.

[Snoggy]

my opinion the fighter's dps is all about consistency with a specific weapon type (slash, bludgeon, and pierce) against every type of opponent whether the opponent is uncrittable, has heavy fort, isnt favored, isnt evil, etc. The fighter doesn't always translate in ddo's new release a mod every 3 months formula, but the goal should be to just increase a fighter damage in general with the favored weapon type and I would prefer a combination of feats and enhancements because the mini prestige classes are exciting and fun. For instance, an enhancment line which provides +4 to damage and +1 to hit with greater weapon specialization weapons and some sort of flavor like for instance proficiency with all exotic slashing weapons if the character has greater weapon specialization slashing.

Interesting concept. But does that example you give really compete with critical rage? If not, then is it really helping to differentiate fighters as a unique but interesting alternative ... or is it just more fluff but nothing meaty enough to get melee fans to move away from the lockjaw mindset of barbarians = the be all end all?

[Angelus_dead]

Ok so now our weapons have an extra 10 dice or so on our crits...how many of you are still running weapon spec/grtr weapon spec on your fighters? I think it needs an enhancement line at high levels to stay viable or a re-look at the feat entirely. +2 damage per feat is not very rewarding when elite vermin has 800hp and 3/4 bab classes can farm for weapons with more dice than Vegas.

There's nothing wrong with those feats. Weapon Spec is fine.

A fighter has buckets of extra feats, so spending a few of them on +2 damage is perfectly fine. Hey, if there were more feats like Superior Weapon Spec and Amazing Weapon Spec to give additional +2 damages, fighters would willingly spend feats on them too.

The problems with DDO fighters are
A) Several existing combat feats aren't good enough
B) Several good D&D feats are missing
C) No nice high-level enhancements

[Laith]

if anything killed the purpose of a fighter's bonus feats, it was the duration/power of barbarian rage.

the choices fighters have just can't compete.

odds are though, fighters are next up for "loving". we'll see how that goes...

[Twerpp]

There's nothing wrong with those feats. Weapon Spec is fine.

A fighter has buckets of extra feats, so spending a few of them on +2 damage is perfectly fine. Hey, if there were more feats like Superior Weapon Spec and Amazing Weapon Spec to give additional +2 damages, fighters would willingly spend feats on them too.

The problems with DDO fighters are
A) Several existing combat feats aren't good enough
B) Several good D&D feats are missing
C) No nice high-level enhancements

I second all that and still continue to champion my existing claim. +4 to damage at the cost of 2 feats is a paltry if not pathetic addition to a +5 acid of acid bursting of acid blasting of acidic spraying of acidic immersion of 30% chance of cloudy with chance of acidic showers greatsword. Teh problem is as you and some others have noted, we ain't got **** else to spend our feats on! Slicing anyone?

[nbhs275]

That is if they haven't already met their expiration date...

Ok so now our weapons have an extra 10 dice or so on our crits...how many of you are still running weapon spec/grtr weapon spec on your fighters? I think it needs an enhancement line at high levels to stay viable or a re-look at the feat entirely. +2 damage per feat is not very rewarding when elite vermin has 800hp and 3/4 bab classes can farm for weapons with more dice than Vegas.

I only see two possible but not really even that great reasons to keep this around:

1. Weapon spec +2 damage is nice at lower levels

2. You are using picks, where +4 damage equals +16 damage on a crit (ok if you built purely for deathnip this is a good reason)

Dear devs can you PUUUH-LLEAASE look at these feats or give us some new ones? This is no longer scaled correctly by its pure PnP implementation you need to DDO-ify it.

Ok, lets see here. 4 damage on a 1 handed weapon is equal to 8 str. on an offhand weapon, its 16. Potent feats. Another fun fact.

WF fighter, with these feats, PA, and some enhancments gets +12/ +12 damage in each hand. Considerable damage. Add in 38ish strength, and good +5 khopeshs and your going to be in good shape.

Anything that this other classes can get, you can two. The difference is that the pure fighter gets another bonus on ALL his weapons.