Weekly Dev Activities 04/14/08

[Angelus_dead]

The Assassin specifically refers to members of an organization dedicated to killing for hire without any regard for the whys beyond that they are getting paid. That is blatantly an evil mindset in D&D. James Bond would have some other PrC.

As has already been explained, that is only true because of circular reasoning.

D&D assassins must be evil only because the rules say D&D assassins must be evil. There is nothing about the abilities granted by the class which makes the class inherently evil.

It's an arbitrary rule. And it's a bad rule, because it undermines the game's ability to represent the kinds of characters typical to fantasy adventure. The non-evil assassin protagonist is a stock character of those kinds of books and movies- it should be supported by the rules.

[Deaths_ward]

He can be DPS'd just fine...... Adamantine breaks his DR. He doesnt have that many hit points.

Amen to that. I realized when my Polar Ray hit him for about 30 points and d**n near dropped him by 40% that he doesn't have to many hp.

[Borror0]

Amen to that. I realized when my Polar Ray hit him for about 30 points and d**n near dropped him by 40% that he doesn't have to many hp.

On elite he's got about 600 HP...

[Invalid_86]

Seeing alignments is so limited.

You know, nothing is black and white, at least my PnP characters aren't. You can have a rigorous but hate laws. You could be fine with what you impose yourself, but as soon as someone tells you what to do, they just can go to hell. An assasin can be driven by a greater goal that makes killing alright. Don't tell me it's Evil, that's what paladins do... they kill for their religion.

The funny thing is in the DnD mythos there actually is black and white, good and evil, order and chaos, and balancing forces at work. In fact there are literally Gods and entire planes of existance dedicated to these concepts that struggle on the Prime material plane- which provides us with juicy conflict in which to set out stories.

Saying anyone who assassinates anyone is a member of the Assassin class is like saying anyone who fights is a Fighter, anyone who steals is a Rogue (or Thief, for you old schoolers), anyone with barbaric tendencies is a Barbarian, any woodland tracker is a Ranger, any pious individual is a Cleric, or any student of eldritch lore is a Wizard. There is a certain amount of dedication involved, and certain shared characteristics.

Sure some people may assassinate an wicked king for the greater good, slay a warlord to protect a village, poison a mad wizard to save their families, snipe an enemy general out of a sense of national pride. But they all have a shared motivation- they believe that what they are doing needs to be done, there is a higher purpose. True members of the Assassin class lack any need for murder and don't care who they kill- they just want their money or their fun. In DnD terms that's clearly evil.

Outside of DnD the concept of alignment is ridiculous. Of course there isn't a universal evil and good, it's all subjective. Some of the most horrific things in history have been done with good intentions, heck even the Nazis had many upsides to them- and we profited from the war that they brought on (note- just an example, I am not a Nazi lover!). People have deeper motivations, points of view, beliefs in what's right....and frankly I'd rather play a personality than an alignment so if alignments disappear in 4th edition I won't be too sad!

[Joven]

I think they should KEEP the stealth part of it... but make the DC higher, so you've got a REALLY good chance of an instant kill..

I LOVE the idea of sending in the rogue first to take out a caster or maybe even an orange name...

Of course, once he makes the first kill, all hell breaks lose, and it will be very difficult for him to stay in stealth to use that skill again...

I'd rather see this be a once per fight kind of attack, but for it to land 80%-95% of the time.

Adds great flavor to the rogue class that way.

agree


Man you people want everything fast and now. it is a stelth skill, assassins are stealth killers. You people wont be happy till ya do 1K points per swing and everything has one hitpoint so ya dont even have to slow down. Dev's I dig it. Thumbs up. to the rest of ya people out there that dont like it dont take it.

[bobbryan2]

agree


Man you people want everything fast and now. it is a stelth skill, assassins are stealth killers. You people wont be happy till ya do 1K points per swing and everything has one hitpoint so ya dont even have to slow down. Dev's I dig it. Thumbs up. to the rest of ya people out there that dont like it dont take it.

It's not about the skill being stealth. It's that stealth isn't effective as a means of beating encounters. Bypassing encounters? Maybe? Killing a single mob that's not near anything? Sure... but.. that's not really ahrd anyway.

But beating encounters? Not really.

Making a combat ability use a tactic that doesn't benefit combat is backwards.

[Jefro]

* NEW The mechanics of the Black Abbot Phasing Tile room have been adjusted. On Normal difficulty, 20% of the tiles will be down at any time. Hard difficulty is now set to the previous Normal (approximately 30%), and Elite is unchanged and is still set to the original "Normal" difficulty.

While everyone is playing their monks, guess what I shall be completing

[Lorien_the_First_One]

You missed the biggest thing about being an assassin:

The character must kill someone for no other reason than to join the assassins.

Unless you have some kind of pre-arranged deal with your DM, this is most certainly an evil act. Killing someone simily for money or (even worse) for no other reason than to do it is evil. Becoming a rogue has no such requirement unless your DM stipulates it.

Edit: looks like Bobyran2 beat me to the punch.

Eh, you could go find a Hitler and kill him....

[Locathus]

I just wanted to let you guys know that next week's WDA will be on Tuesday, due to the Massachusetts holiday.

In a shameless plug, I thought I'd mention that my little brother is running the marathon on Monday. If the Devs would cheer for him on their day off, I'd appreciate it. His name is Mike He'll be the one in shorts.

[DNDJESS]

[*]UPDATED Rogue Way of the Mechanic II:

• Cost: 2 Action Points
• Prereqs: Rogue Level 12, Rogue Way of the Mechanic I, Rogue Disable Device III, Rogue Improved Trap Sense II, Rogue Open Lock III, 42 Action Points Spent
• Benefit: Grants an additional +2 bonus to Disable Device, Open Lock, Repair, Search, and Spot skills. Also grants an additional +4 to saves against traps and 2 points of additional resistance against all elements.

I just noticed - no improvement to the Repair Construct ability with the 2nd tier?

[Angelus_dead]

I just noticed - no improvement to the Repair Construct ability with the 2nd tier?

Even the first stage of Way of the Mechanic really needs an improvement to the repair. Maybe it should be scaled according to the HD of the target construct.

The repair isn't supposed to be a great ability, but it should be better than what it does now.

[DNDJESS]

Even the first stage of Way of the Mechanic really needs an improvement to the repair. Maybe it should be scaled according to the HD of the target construct.

The repair isn't supposed to be a great ability, but it should be better than what it does now.

Absolutely. That, and either the range should be SERIOUSLY increased, or the Rogue should be able to perform the ability while moving. Every time I try to use it, the WF takes 2 steps in any direction, and is out of range.

[DNDJESS]

[*]Rogue Way of the Thief Acrobat II:

• Cost: 2 Action Points
• Prereqs: Rogue Level 12, Rogue Way of the Thief Acrobat I, Rogue Dexterity III, 42 Action Points Spent
• Benefit: Grants an additional +2 bonus to Balance, Jump, and Tumble skills, increases your movement rate by 10%, and 2 extra uses per rest of Uncanny Dodge. Also grants a greater increase to attack speed with staves and complete immunity to knockdown effects and slippery surfaces

Will this movement rate stack with things like striding, expiditious retreat, or haste?

[Angelus_dead]

Absolutely. That, and either the range should be SERIOUSLY increased, or the Rogue should be able to perform the ability while moving. Every time I try to use it, the WF takes 2 steps in any direction, and is out of range.

Or raise the amount of healing so that it's worth the wait of a slow casting time.

[Vormaerin]

As has already been explained, that is only true because of circular reasoning.

D&D assassins must be evil only because the rules say D&D assassins must be evil. There is nothing about the abilities granted by the class which makes the class inherently evil.

It's an arbitrary rule. And it's a bad rule, because it undermines the game's ability to represent the kinds of characters typical to fantasy adventure. The non-evil assassin protagonist is a stock character of those kinds of books and movies- it should be supported by the rules.

No, the problem is the assumption that the "assassin" PRC represents everyone who might undertake an assassination. It doesn't. Just like "True Necromancer" doesn't represent everyone who practices necromancy. And warpriest doesn't cover every priest who ends up a soldier. If you want to represent Vlad Taltos or James Bond or whatever, you should have a different PrC. There is over 1000 PrCs just in official 3.5 material. I'm sure there's space to make another.

Eh, you could go find a Hitler and kill him....

Yeah, you could. It wouldn't matter. The point is that the motivation of those seeking that specific prestige class is supposed to be that of a conscienceless killer for hire. If you want "sneaky guy who hunts down evildoers and kills them from surprise", you have something else.

PrCs are supposed to represent narrowly focused characters and organizations. There's more to being a Radiant Servant than being a better healer. There's more to the assassin PrC than getting death attack. PrCs are /supposed/ to have RP considerations and limitations. PnP D&D has gotten away from that, but then the assassin was one of the very first exemplars of a PrC. It was an example for the DM of how to use PrCs to give special abilities to members of a ruthless organization of murderers for hire.