Mod 7: DPS Rogue

[nbhs275]

This is a build that im both currently planning out, putting together and testing. Though alot of the important parts of the build are based around changes that are coming in mod 7, along with current high end gear. This build is not for the beginner or the faint of heart.

Let me introduce my DPS rogue.

Dwarf Rogue 15/ Fighter 1

Stats

HP 399(30 base + 30 GFL +45 Shroud +48 Toughness +18 minos + 100 HD +128 con) 527 Raged


Str 30 standing, 42 raged (17 base +6 item +3 tome +4 levels) +2 rage, +4 madstone +6 bloodrage
Dex 24 (15 base +3 tome +4 item +2 enhancments)
Con 26 standing, 42 raged (16 base +6 item+2 enhancments +2 tome) +2 rage, +8 madstone +6 bloodrage
Int 20 (13 base +1 tome +6 item)
Wis 16 (8 base+ 2 tome +6 item)
Cha 6 base

Feats

1st: Power Attack
3rd: Stunning Blow
6th: Toughness
9th: Least DM of warding
12th: Improved Crit: Slashing
15th: Skill Focus: DD

Fighter Feat: WF slashing, another toughness, hamstring, this one is really up to the player.

Rogue Special abilities
Improved Evasion : Elite Traps can be devistating, and you often have to get through it to disarm it. No matter How hardy you are, taking 70 instead of 140 on a failed save is always worth it. Nevermind those pesky 1's your sure to roll.

Defensive Roll : This gives you that extra few seconds you need that spell the difference between the cleric healing you and the cleric ressing you.

Skill Mastery : Suring up your rogue skills is worth it, especially with the way elite traps are heading.



Skills:

Disable Device 58 (19 ranks +15 item +5 intel +4 Feat +2 enhancment +2 GL +4 GH +7 tools)
Open Lock 55 (19 ranks +15 item +7 dex +2 GL +4 GH +7 tools)
Search 54 (19 ranks +15 item +5 intel +4 feat +4 enhancments +2 GL +4 GH)
Spot 43 (19 ranks +15 item +0 wis +2 enhancments+2 GL +4 GH)
Move Silently 47 (19 ranks +10 item +4 enhancments +7 dex +2 GL +4 GH)
Hide 47 (19 ranks +10 item +4 enhancments +7 dex +2 GL +4 GH)
UMD 26-34 (19 ranks + 1-4 feat +0-5 item +2 GL +4 GH) This also varies depending on your cha, between -2 for no item or tome, to +2 for a +2 tome and +6 item

You also have 15 free skill ranks to play with, which should go between balance, jump, and tumble.

Enhancments:

Dwarven search II (3 total)
Rogue search II (3 total)
Rogue spot II (3 total)
Rogue DD II (3 total)
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III (6 total)
Rogue Sneak Attack Training III (6 total)
Way of the assasin II (6 total)
Rogue Dexterity II (6 total)
Dwarven Con II (6 total)
Dwarven Toughness III (6 total)
Rogue Damage Boost II (3 total)
Rogue Subtle backstabbing III (6 total)
Rogue Haste Boost III (6 total)
Rogue Skill boost I (1 total)

The basic effect appart from the skill bonuses, is +3 attack on SA's, +17 Damage on SA;s, +2 con, +2 dex, +30 HP, A death attack, 30% less perceived damage, and a very nice attack speed boost of +25%.


NOW, for the Equipment Specs

Helm: Minos
Neck: +6 con
Trinket: HoGF
Belt: Titan Belt
Gloves: Backstabbers gloves
Cloak: Stormreavers napkin
Boots: Madstone boots
Bracers: Shroud item<<45 HP and +6 wisdom>>
Ring 1: +4 resistance
Ring 2: Utility, energy resists, reaver ring, ect.

Weapons.

Now, the best possible weapon is a Radience II greatsword. For two reasons. The good DPS it will do on every hit, and any crit with it will blind the target. Which means Endless SAs. Every time this build gets SA damage, its an extra 8d6 +20. 28-68 is nothing to sneeze at.

So anyways, to hit

12 BaB
10 STR
4 GH
5 weapon
-5 PA
________
26, 32 raged +3 on SAs.


Damage<raged>

3d6
+5 weapon
24 STR
10 PA
_________
42-57, +2d6 holy +1d6 fire<and another 1d10 fire and 5d6 light on a crit>

Other good weapons to make would be an earth/postive maul. For enemies that are either immune to fire, blinding, or have alot of DR.


Any suggestions welcome. I'll repeat, this is not a build designed for the new player or anyone not interested in raiding.

[Impaqt]

I dotn quite understand people Planning for DOuble Madstone Rages and Bloodrage..... Those are Bonus's not something to base your character and Tohit/Damage numbers off of.....

Look at my Dwassassin Build...

I dont quite understand power attack or the Dragon mark.....

Your Damage Should come from Sneak Attack... Not Brute Force Two Handed Fighting on a DPS rogue is hard to pull off... Your Cutting yoru Attacks per round in half. Sure, Your doing more damage per swing.. But thats makes it even harder for you to control your aggro.

[Impaqt]

-Double Post, Sry-

[LeLoric]

this build will never be able to maintain sneak attack dmg consistently and madstone and bloodrage are not guaranteed

the time spent to farm the specific items and tomes you have listed will be quite immense in the mean time this build will further suffer and be a pain to play and play with

basically all that impact said lol

[Aeneas]

You could do the same thing only better by going 14 fighter and splashing rogue. Obviously you don't care about backstab damage cause you won't be getting any. So why not just make a high int fighter and take advantage of all the feats he'd have over the lower bab strength rogue and splash a little for evasion and your rogue skills. If you want to do something fun, splash 6 levels of rogue, take way of the acrobat I, and make a blunt spec fighter who uses quarterstaves. Then you'd have a ton of fun combat feats, a higher bab, access to rogue dex 2, 10&#37; attack speed increase with q-staves, and fighter strength 3 as well as fighter haste boost 3 and armor masteries to stack with the dwarven armor masteries.

[nbhs275]

I dotn quite understand people Planning for DOuble Madstone Rages and Bloodrage..... Those are Bonus's not something to base your character and Tohit/Damage numbers off of.....

Look at my Dwassassin Build...

I dont quite understand power attack or the Dragon mark.....

Your Damage Should come from Sneak Attack... Not Brute Force Two Handed Fighting on a DPS rogue is hard to pull off... Your Cutting yoru Attacks per round in half. Sure, Your doing more damage per swing.. But thats makes it even harder for you to control your aggro.

A few things. I said that this isnt going to be a new player build, or an easy one to put together.

I showed stats for both unraged, and fully raged. The idea is your already going to do very good damage unraged, which your going to end up picking up aggro with. You might as well get a benefit for those hits.

To-hit fully UNRAGED your at 26, enough to hit most mobs easily. And while your getting sneak attacks thats a 30.

Now, when your hitting for 70-100 a swing, you are going to get aggro. I understand that. But with the barbarians we have running around now that can hit for 50-70 a swing and crit often, you shouldnt be the only one delivering a pounding. You also have stunning blow, which IS an instant kill for this build.

If you read farther down, i said the weapon of choice for this build is a radience II greatsword. Which means that 20% of the time your going to put an enemy into a stat of AUTO SA. Which again, is basically auto kill.

So you shouldnt have any problem with getting your SA out. Yes this build does not have TWF. TWF will get more hits in, but it also eats up feats, ability points, and im not interested in another TWF build.

Yes this gear isnt the most common. Im also not a new player, and not a single piece of this gear is a real problem.

Sure the shroud items are going to take a little time to farm the ingredients for, but when your running 3-4 completions every 3 days like me its just a matter of time. Reaver equipment? In the current game when everyone has basically every item other then +3 tomes, getting what you need from reaver can only take 2-3 weeks to get. +2 tomes? yet again, shroud runs can net you a +2 tome for about 1 out of 10 runs. Any of the other gear is stuff i already have, ready to go.

The only things i listed are the +3 tomes and titan belt which are hard to get. And these 2 arent going to make or break the build.

Of course, thats all the endgame expectations. But even when your leveling up, your going to be doing very well. If your the first to attack you should be able to take down alot of enemies with Stunning blow. If someone else has already put a dent into an opponent they should be easy to drop.

Another nice perk from this build is the ability to deal worthwhile damage against mobs that are immune to SA.

The dragonmark is for search. PA is for the fact that your going to be getting SA alot of the time. An extra 10 on every hit is going to help.

[nbhs275]

Also, according to the rogue skill guide

*Cabal Trap*
Editorial: This trap guards a single chest, and has DCs on Elite that are silly-high enough that your party won't expect you to be able to disarm it -- all they lose is a chest, and the DCs are simply too high for all but the most trap-optimized builds to achieve.
Disable Device: 75-76 DC.
Search: <= 56 DC Has been found after recent update with as low as a 56 Search, but may be yet lower.

*Everything Else*
Disable Device: somewhere greater than a 57 modifier for 0% chance of blowing traps. Foundation of Discord trap with DC at least 62, possibly higher.
Open Locks: +39-48 modifier. Locked door in Fleshmaker's Lab, has been failed on a total 58, and succeeded on a total 68.
Search: <44? (traps)/ 45-48 (secret doors) VoN 4 secret door has been reported as 45-48 DC on Elite. Second highest trap (after Cabal) in Gianthold has not been discussed veyr much, but SableShadow has been steadily pushing the envelope and hasn't run into trouble with a Search of 44.
Spot: >>39 39 Was not enough to spot traps in Rainbow in the Dark on Hard.

I should be able to find every trap in the game(if the cabal trap is still the highest) and disarm nearly any trap without a failure chance. And hell, i would have a spitting chance at the cabal trap. Which, even when it blows in my face i will most likely live through.

Reflex save should be 26 standing, uncanny dodge for 32, and another +10 against traps.

[Impaqt]

Yes, TWF Eats up Feats, But you have 3 feats inthis build that are nothing but Fluff.. PA.. You simply not going to be able to Stun and opeonant, Switch weapons, and Turn on PA quick enough to make a difference. and the Search and Disable Feats? For ONE trap that no o ne cares about? really? And your still Short ~10 points onthat for Disable anyway..... Evven withthe fat (Which is +3 btw, not +4)

Personally, If your tired of TWF toons, Go THF Barb for DPS.... You can keep al uyour stats maxed with just 3 levels of Rogue for a13/3 Split. After Cap goes up, you'll get your second critical rage enhancment.

[nbhs275]

Yes, TWF Eats up Feats, But you have 3 feats inthis build that are nothing but Fluff.. PA.. You simply not going to be able to Stun and opeonant, Switch weapons, and Turn on PA quick enough to make a difference. and the Search and Disable Feats? For ONE trap that no o ne cares about? really? And your still Short ~10 points onthat for Disable anyway..... Evven withthe fat (Which is +3 btw, not +4)

Personally, If your tired of TWF toons, Go THF Barb for DPS.... You can keep al uyour stats maxed with just 3 levels of Rogue for a13/3 Split. After Cap goes up, you'll get your second critical rage enhancment.

Ok, lets see here. PA is always going to running, there is really no reason to shut it off. I wont have to switch weapons, I'll either just swing with a greataxe, or a maul until cap. Stunning blow doesnt have to hit every time, but is free kill whenever it does.

As far as the skill feats, those are only in there to make sure im getting everything as far as that handled, and if i find at cap that i need less i can always swap out those for other useful things. Yeah, its about 12 short of the cabal trap for disarm, meaning that on a roll of a D20 i have a chance of getting it, not a definate shot. I never said i was optimizing for it. I know skill focus is +3. but skill mastery is a feat bud, and 3+1=4.

Ok, and as far as my characters man, im not up for riding the ****ing easy train. I got a battle cleric,(2handed) a battle bard(2handed), a max str barbarian(TWF), a high Str//AC ranger(TWF). All capped and all pretty much equipped to the teeth. I don't really wanna be another THF barbarian out there, too many swarming my server as is. I also got a rogue and sorcerer mid-leveled(9 sorc, rogue is 11)

The rogue is finesse/twf, and i can't tell you of a character i have been more bored playing. Sure the extra SA damage is always great, but once you have aggro your dead in the water. And once your there you can only bluff it off, nickel and dime it to death, or hope for help.

With what im laying out here(this is for myself, if you dont wanna play it, guess what? you dont have to) your going to get that same first attack for more, your going to be able to be able to either kill it conventionally, stun it and get an easy kill, or get help.

The only real advantage to TWF compared to THF is that you dont need as strong a fighter to pull aggro off of you. Sure TWF is hitting faster, but your going to pick up aggro at the same point. One thing TWF has going for it is that you can go radience khopesh/treason. Which would mean very little aggro.

[Borror0]

TWF > THF in DPS if you go Str-based, even if you loose aggro.

[ghale]

You consider 26 to hit with gh a decent to hit for the end game? Maybe if all you do is normal content you will hit mobs half the time but 26 is a pretty pathetic to hit at lvl 16 with a +4 buff included. Also counting all the buffs from madstone/scourge choker to hit is pretty misleading as you'll have all those maybe .1% of the time?

Also taking feats to disable a few traps in gianthold seems silly when you mention this build is for endgame/raiding content. What do you consider current end game? As far as giving up feats for twf, you have several useless feats already so don't see how you can make that complaint. Especially for a rogue, thf is lower dps than twf since you will only be able to get half the number of sneak attacks. Although if you're set on thf go for it. Also with using thf glancing blows could cause a problem in groups if everyone else is twf or sword and shield.

Your posts look like you really don't know much about rogues. With twf a weaker fighter can get aggro easier? That is probably one of the most absurd statements there is. It looks like you are making this build to be dps compared to thf fighters which sure it will be more dps when you sneak attack. Compared to rogues who specializes for dps this build is weaker.

Not a very good build to take advantage of the strengths rogues have to offer.

[Accelerando]

Hey weren't you arguing with me about twf rogue dps being weak just the other day?

BTW you can't take toughness as a fighter bonus feat.

http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Fighter_bonus_feat

That is a list of what you can take.

For this build you are really going to need a high tumble, bluff, and diplo to keep yourself alive/ keep the aggro off of you.

Consider Improved Feint, Drop Power Attack (with your already low BAB you are really going to suffer with it) and maybe pick up Improved Trip.

The stunning blow is an excellent choice, and with the fighter strategy and dwarven tactics enhancements it will land often enough to give you quite a few instant kills.

Don't listen to all the haters your build is perfectly acceptable, even if a tiny bit behind the curve for str based dps rogues.

edit: oh you are going THF... sorry I missed that.

[kahbel]

This build would be highly dependent on wether or not you need to *confirm* the crit to get the blind effect from radiance. (:

And sadly, Ghale is 100&#37; correct as usual.

[Geonis]

I noticed that can't be true when I saw it's not a Halfling.

[CSFurious]

drow

halfling comes in second

i have a level 14 dwarf rogue

you will end up tanking with him which eliminates your sneak attack damage

[Yshkabibble]

nm

[Aspenor]

drow

halfling comes in second

i have a level 14 dwarf rogue

you will end up tanking with him which eliminates your sneak attack damage

Just to be picky, not confrontational, the OP did say this was a DPS rogue and not an assassin

[nbhs275]

You consider 26 to hit with gh a decent to hit for the end game? Maybe if all you do is normal content you will hit mobs half the time but 26 is a pretty pathetic to hit at lvl 16 with a +4 buff included. Also counting all the buffs from madstone/scourge choker to hit is pretty misleading as you'll have all those maybe .1% of the time?

That 26 is base, with PA running. Any of the other rages simply increases it. I consider for PVE content 26 a fine first attack. VERY few mobs in game have higher then a 28 ac. Madstone x1 runs about 100% of the time, either simply by being hit or multiple clickies. Rage pots are a constant. Bloodrage stacks up any time your getting hit. And again, i never based any of the base stats on these rages, simply noted that its possible for them to boost that high due to these items.

Also taking feats to disable a few traps in gianthold seems silly when you mention this build is for endgame/raiding content. What do you consider current end game? As far as giving up feats for twf, you have several useless feats already so don't see how you can make that complaint. Especially for a rogue, thf is lower dps than twf since you will only be able to get half the number of sneak attacks. Although if you're set on thf go for it. Also with using thf glancing blows could cause a problem in groups if everyone else is twf or sword and shield. If glancing blows for 12-20 every few swings is enough to pull aggro from a tank, than that person should just delete their character. Sure i could drop DD, the dragon mark,and umd. Pick up TWF, and use it. But, like ive said, im not interested in making another TWF character. As far as endgame, yes, no traps in shroud, which is once ever 3 days. Is though in titan, DQ, and dragon, either in the flagging or preraid. There is also traps in vale quests, orchard quests and gianthold quests. If i have more search/DD then i need i can always trade those out. Simple.

Your posts look like you really don't know much about rogues. With twf a weaker fighter can get aggro easier? That is probably one of the most absurd statements there is. If your TWF with treason offhand, your doing less percieved damage. Your also going to do less raw damage, meaning you wont hold the aggro as long if you happen to pull it away.It looks like you are making this build to be dps compared to thf fighters which sure it will be more dps when you sneak attack. Compared to rogues who specializes for dps this build is weaker. I never said this was a "MAX DPS" rogue, just that it was a DPS rogue.

Not a very good build to take advantage of the strengths rogues have to offer.

And accelerando, no i didnt say anything to you about TWF rogues, considering i hadnt posted for a week. Toughness also could be subbed in for a combat feat like stunning blow and that switched to a toughness. OR any other feat. Improved fient requires CE. Which is a waste of a feat on a build that will most likely be in robes.

yet again, with PA, im at 26 attack, 30 on SA

vs a TWF build that would be at 27 Without PA or oversized. Such a huge difference.

Ghale bud, im plenty aware what the end game consists of. Unless they have released a new mod in my last week away, i have done every quest in the game on elite atleast once. I've played it Armored, in robes, TWF, THF, S&B, with spells, every which way. Im not dilutioned that Traps are everywhere, but i figure any rogue should be able to handle them when they come up, and i rather overshoot then scrape by. And for probably the fifth time, i can always drop feats or enhancments if i find im succeeding everything on a 1.

[oronisi]

And accelerando, no i didnt say anything to you about TWF rogues, considering i hadnt posted for a week. Toughness also could be subbed in for a combat feat like stunning blow and that switched to a toughness. OR any other feat. Improved fient requires CE. Which is a waste of a feat on a build that will most likely be in robes.

yet again, with PA, im at 26 attack, 30 on SA

vs a TWF build that would be at 27 Without PA or oversized. Such a huge difference.

Ghale bud, im plenty aware what the end game consists of. Unless they have released a new mod in my last week away, i have done every quest in the game on elite atleast once. I've played it Armored, in robes, TWF, THF, S&B, with spells, every which way. Im not dilutioned that Traps are everywhere, but i figure any rogue should be able to handle them when they come up, and i rather overshoot then scrape by. And for probably the fifth time, i can always drop feats or enhancments if i find im succeeding everything on a 1.

Awesome! How many HP did the Abbot have on elite?

[nbhs275]

Awesome! How many HP did the Abbot have on elite?

A ****ing lot, tho sorry, i didnt bother to list every single one of my hits, and gather that info from every other person in the party.

Abbot was completable back when puzzles wherent necessary, i havent done it recently. No one has it seems.