Need to make all clerics 32 pt.

[cyadra]

Because of server moving and other issues, right now I am restricted to 28 pt build. I want to make a human cleric, and have skimmed over builds. I go to make my cleric with max wis, good CH, and a little CON, and realize it can't be done with 32 points. Is it me or is a 28 pt build so gimped especially at low levels it doesn't make any sense to make it. Other races have too many drawbacks. WFut, Dwarf: Low CHA, Elf: No strength, Halfling: Good with +1, but no STR, Drow: Low Con. It seems like you need to many points to make a good Cleric.

[Uska]

That is baloney my main is a 28 pt human cleric first character I ever made and I still play him now, yes now he has a +2 wisdom tome from favor and a +1 tome he got from the cake but had niether of those on his way up, I dont have much raid gear and what I do have you cant use at low level anyways. Make a cleric and you should see. If my playing time wasnt limited I would make a 28pt cleric on a server I dont have 32 pts on just to prove it, but trust me you should be fine.

[DaveyCrockett]

Dump CHA, roll a dwarf, and be very happy you listened!

[Uska]

Dump CHA, roll a dwarf, and be very happy you listened!

Dwarves make fine clerics and their low flat heads make a great place for us humans to rest our drinks

[Uska]

Just a note Davey is right not all clerics need cha as that is only really useful if you want dvs or to turn undead and even with the improvements turning undead isnt all that useful in ddo and while a few might be disapointed in yoiur not having dv's I use them a little less in higher level quests now then I did in lower level ones usually in the reaver or shroud I dont use them at all.

[cyadra]

Then what is the point in even having a cleric then if your going to dump the CH and limit your turning ability. Lets limit bard songs (they get a perform SKILL), or limit the healing ability of Paladins (who gain it with a score of 12), or take away the free Ranger TWF and stabilization feat, etc. I am not looking to make some uber cleric, but you need STR to hit, a little DEX, WIZ for your spells, CON for HP's and CH for turning. Is there another class that needs decent stats in 5 areas with one that should almost be totally maxed out?

[DaveyCrockett]

Then what is the point in even having a cleric then if your going to dump the CH and limit your turning ability. Lets limit bard songs (they get a perform SKILL), or limit the healing ability of Paladins (who gain it with a score of 12), or take away the free Ranger TWF and stabilization feat, etc. I am not looking to make some uber cleric, but you need STR to hit, a little DEX, WIZ for your spells, CON for HP's and CH for turning. Is there another class that needs decent stats in 5 areas with one that should almost be totally maxed out?

The point of having a cleric is certainly not to DV the caster, or to turn the undead that you won't see in the latest and most popular new content (including the next mod), or even to be a healbot.

The point of having a cleric is to enjoy playing a very powerful class with plenty of 'toys' at your disposal.

You need STR to hit things? Blade Barrier doesn't care what your STR is.
You need DEX for ...? No.
You need WIS, and you need CON (that keeps you alive)
You could start your dwarven cleric with an 18 WIS, 16 CON, and 14 STR, and I believe that you would enjoy playing them very much.

At end game he could have around 1800 spell points, and over 400 hit points, be able to buff up and join in the melee, heal the party, or out-'insta-kill' the sorcerer - depending on how you choose to play.

Why exactly, do you think you need a 32-pt build to accomplish this?

[moorewr]

Turning hardly works, even for a max-CHA caster with a Turning feat and a sacred item, once you hit the mid to upper level quests.

So, yes, live with less CHA, or roll up a Drow Cleric. Nothing wrong with a Drow cleric (except finding points to have a decent CON).

[Zenako]

TURNING undead works fine, it is just too many people expect all TURNS to DESTROY undead which is not the case at all. Generally in level appropriate quests, a lot of the undead you face will just be turned and move away and cower. While they are cowering you can beat on them without return attacks freely.

If you want to be a good melee cleric as well, you need to give up on the idea of MAX WIS. You can have very very good WIS for a lot fewer build points and spend those on those other stats.

As for classes wanting/needing a lot of good stats, Paladin and Ranger come to mind quickly. Any Tactics fighter probably wants close to a 13 in INT fairly soon, and so on.

[Uska]

Then what is the point in even having a cleric then if your going to dump the CH and limit your turning ability. Lets limit bard songs (they get a perform SKILL), or limit the healing ability of Paladins (who gain it with a score of 12), or take away the free Ranger TWF and stabilization feat, etc. I am not looking to make some uber cleric, but you need STR to hit, a little DEX, WIZ for your spells, CON for HP's and CH for turning. Is there another class that needs decent stats in 5 areas with one that should almost be totally maxed out?

The game its self limits turning ability and there are a whole lot of quests where its useless anyways, I mainly play clerics and dont see any difference between my 28 pt human, my drow and my 32 human all are very useful dependng on the level of the quest as the all very in their levels that being 16, 11, and 5. Cha is fine for some clerics but not all need it seen lots of clerics that used it as a dump stat and the only differnce between their cleric and mine is that I have lots of dvs they have few if any big deal.

[Uska]

TURNING undead works fine, it is just too many people expect all TURNS to DESTROY undead which is not the case at all. Generally in level appropriate quests, a lot of the undead you face will just be turned and move away and cower. While they are cowering you can beat on them without return attacks freely.

If you want to be a good melee cleric as well, you need to give up on the idea of MAX WIS. You can have very very good WIS for a lot fewer build points and spend those on those other stats.

As for classes wanting/needing a lot of good stats, Paladin and Ranger come to mind quickly. Any Tactics fighter probably wants close to a 13 in INT fairly soon, and so on.

Turning in ddo is better then it was but it is still nerfed as all creatures are boosted in ddo so you do less

[QuantumFX]

Fact: 28pt clerics are not gimped. 32pt builds are only stellar for multiclass or paladin or monk builds. (Usually these builds don't have a dumpstat.)

[cyadra]

Quick Question on Turning: Was it always a Charisma based ability, and I mean going back to paper and pencil days (when for example Paladins could only be human with at least 17 Charisma?) Part of me remembers at one point it being Wisdom based, but that does not make sense.

Also, I can see your points as Cha as a dump stat for clerics. Coming as a Pally where Charisma is probably as important or even more important than Strength for heals and such, I can see your point now. It just seems like a huge waste to me.

[Uska]

Quick Question on Turning: Was it always a Charisma based ability, and I mean going back to paper and pencil days (when for example Paladins could only be human with at least 17 Charisma?) Part of me remembers at one point it being Wisdom based, but that does not make sense.

Also, I can see your points as Cha as a dump stat for clerics. Coming as a Pally where Charisma is probably as important or even more important than Strength for heals and such, I can see your point now. It just seems like a huge waste to me.

in 3.0 it has always been that way

[moorewr]

Quick Question on Turning: Was it always a Charisma based ability, and I mean going back to paper and pencil days (when for example Paladins could only be human with at least 17 Charisma?) Part of me remembers at one point it being Wisdom based, but that does not make sense.

Also, I can see your points as Cha as a dump stat for clerics. Coming as a Pally where Charisma is probably as important or even more important than Strength for heals and such, I can see your point now. It just seems like a huge waste to me.

It was bizarre in 1st edition - there was a chart, and only the level of the Cleric and the type of undead mattered to see how many were turned.

[Zenako]

Thats not bizzarre, that was Normal for some of us old timers....

all this new fangled d20 stuff took some getting used to.

[moorewr]

Thats not bizzarre, that was Normal for some of us old timers....

all this new fangled d20 stuff took some getting used to.

Hey, I'm an old-timer too!

[cyadra]

yeah, I STILL don't understand the whole THAC0 thing.

[Frodo_Lives]

Man I love the old red set. I wanted to make a wizard named Bargle or a cleric named Alena, but the names were taken.

If you get that reference then you definately are an old timer!

[hydra_ex]

In version 3.0/3.5 of D&D (of which DDO is based), Clerics are meant to be of any race, and therefore each cleric IS MEANT to have its own weaknesses and strengths. Dwarf Clerics have a high survivability (important when your part is facing a whipe or using blade barriers), yet a low turning rate (which disruptors and firewalls are far better at anyways). Halfling Clerics tend to have a higher AC and better saves, yet are not as potent in melee combat, Human clerics are good all around, with no evident strengths, yet not overall weaknesses either. Even the elf and warforged clerics have some merit to them (elves not so much unless you want to make a cleric/wizrd multiclass or something strange like that O_o). Drow's +2 cha and wis also counterbalance their con loss. Your drow cleric can probably have a decent cha and con, while keeping a high wis as well. Still, 32-pt makes (almost) every build and class better.