Search/Disable timers

[Vyctor]

With the increase of traps in combat areas, is there any chance or support for an enhancement line to speed up the search and disable timers for rogues?

[oronisi]

I hearby propose the time it takes to search or disable being the current - (current * skill% * 1.25).

So if you have a 50 search skill, and it takes 2 seconds to search currently ingame, it would take you 2s - (2s * 50% * 1.25) = .75 second to search.

Search of 75 = .125s
Search of 50 = .75s
Search of 25 = 1.375s (assuming it takes 2 seconds now)
Search of 10 = 1.75s


I love it! Don't forget to apply whatever formula to DD, Search, and OL.

[Vyctor]

I was thinking more along the lines of something like

Speedy Trapsmith I
cost 1 ap
you are capable of quickly finding and disarming traps, your search and disable speed is increased 25%

Speedy Trapsmith II
cost 2 ap
search and disable speed is increased 50%

[oronisi]

Noo not my precious action points! Eh ok, your way is simpler to implement.

[Vyctor]

or maybe make it part of the way of the mechanic?

[deepshadow]

I'd like to propose another method of disable timers.

Base Search/Disable time (currently this is around 4 seconds?) divided by Rogue Level

If you base this timer only on disable skill, you'll be putting multiclass rogues on par with full rogues. the suggestion to make this skill faster given more traps will be coming makes sense, but any increase in duration should be weighted by rogue level IMHO.

[Vyctor]

making it part of the way of mechanic gives that speciality more weight...and also helps straight or mostly straight rogues over splash rogues.

[binnsr]

I like orosini's way .. I already have too many things to spend APs on as a rogue ..

Also, I have never liked the argument that a class should be given something as a reward for staying pure. Merely by multi-classing in the first place, you already gave up something - the rogue special feats, more sneak attack, more trap sense, fewer skill points, etc. The DnD system already has the penalties for multi-classing in place - we don't need to further penalize multi-class characters just to make folks feel justified in 'staying pure.'

[Dimicron]

I like orosini's way .. I already have too many things to spend APs on as a rogue ..

Also, I have never liked the argument that a class should be given something as a reward for staying pure. Merely by multi-classing in the first place, you already gave up something - the rogue special feats, more sneak attack, more trap sense, fewer skill points, etc. The DnD system already has the penalties for multi-classing in place - we don't need to further penalize multi-class characters just to make folks feel justified in 'staying pure.'

I agree with this. (Though I am slightly biased here with my halfie fightin' rogue in my sig)

[Vyctor]

I agree rogues have lots of options and not enough AP most of the time. Had to rework mine to prepare for Thief-Acro II because I want that when it comes in Mod 7. But it seems like the best/easiest/quickest way is to make it an enhancement. And since Mechanic II is still in development, maybe this is a good starting point?

[honkuimushi]

How about we just cut the time in half for everyone?

[DNDJESS]

Would it make sense to have the speed associated with the concentration skill? This would be available to everyone, but would benefit pure rogues the most since they'll likely have extra skill points to spend. Of course the main downside with this is, it wouldn't help current rogues....

[Uska]

I hearby propose the time it takes to search or disable being the current - (current * skill% * 1.25).

So if you have a 50 search skill, and it takes 2 seconds to search currently ingame, it would take you 2s - (2s * 50% * 1.25) = .75 second to search.

Search of 75 = .125s
Search of 50 = .75s
Search of 25 = 1.375s (assuming it takes 2 seconds now)
Search of 10 = 1.75s


I love it! Don't forget to apply whatever formula to DD, Search, and OL.

Well I hate it the enhancement idea I could back but not yours.

[Uska]

I'd like to propose another method of disable timers.

Base Search/Disable time (currently this is around 4 seconds?) divided by Rogue Level

If you base this timer only on disable skill, you'll be putting multiclass rogues on par with full rogues. the suggestion to make this skill faster given more traps will be coming makes sense, but any increase in duration should be weighted by rogue level IMHO.

I dont like this idea either sorry, but the enhancement idea would follow your idea a little as only people with more rogue levels could take the higher enhancments.

[Uska]

or maybe make it part of the way of the mechanic?

Yes.

[Zenako]

Or just slow everyone down, like they have Trog Stench, then it seems like you are doing it faster? Haste on us or Slow on them? Almost the same difference...

[Venar]

Give the option to "speed disable/search" at -5 skill penalty

[deepshadow]

I like orosini's way .. I already have too many things to spend APs on as a rogue ..

Also, I have never liked the argument that a class should be given something as a reward for staying pure. Merely by multi-classing in the first place, you already gave up something - the rogue special feats, more sneak attack, more trap sense, fewer skill points, etc. The DnD system already has the penalties for multi-classing in place - we don't need to further penalize multi-class characters just to make folks feel justified in 'staying pure.'

Many classes have rewards for being pure. Scaling bonuses as you progress are the reward for this. As you progress in level, you get improvements to abilities. Disable and Search do not scale and are driven by skill points. You either succeed or fail when you use them. More importantly Skills in general are not working as they should (and not working as they do in PnP). For example, your skills should be capped (unable to progress) at your classes level. Currently, 1 rogue level enabled you to train to max all skills. Given the mostly useless nature of many skills, it enables one or two levels of rogue to effectively perform on equal footing as characters who have invested more levels. This is not the same with most other classes.

When you compare two characters, one a full rogue with another who has a few rogue levels, you should see a difference in their performance. Imagine if you could take 1 wizard level and put skill points into some Spellcasting skill to make spells as useful and as effective as a level 16 wizard's. I think this comparison is appropriate. Granted, Rogues can do other things and have other roles, but if we're talking about improvements to base rogue abilities and reduction in search/disable timers, we should strongly consider leveraging rogue level for this.

I know there are plenty of part time rogue builds that aren't full rogues, that's fine, you still get to use your +15DD/Search items and disable any trap a full rogue can. But, please see the logic in allowing a fully dedicated rogue to perform those actions more effective than rogues who basically picked up a copy of "Trapsmithing for dummies"

[QuantumFX]

Tie it in with Skill Mastery.

[deepshadow]

Tie it in with Skill Mastery.

Not a bad idea.

Way of the Mechanic isn't a bad option either. I think this specialty needs some beefing up anyway. Maybe include it as a bonus for Way of the Mechanic II ?